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Blackpill After all the science, progress and technology, we now live worse than in 12th century Europe

Teutonic Knight

Teutonic Knight

Mythic
Joined
Mar 2, 2019
Posts
4,521
JFL at how bad the Western society is when it managed to regress from the middle ages so badly.

Even a 12th century European peasant lived better than the average Western man today. Average 12th century peasant would get married to a young virgin, work much less than a regular wagecuck and eat healthier food. The only thing he needed to do was to pay a small tribute to his lord and it was way less than what you pay in taxes now.

Average Western man in 12th century is either an incel or gets an old promiscous woman who divorces him, he works like a slave for some corporation and struggles to survive financially. He eats poisoned junk food and is addicted to hundreds of harmful things just to keep coping with his shit society.

And don't come up with shit like "but we live longer now" because we all know that for most men after 25 years of age this isn't living anymore but just rotting for decades until death, and for many it never began. What is the point of people living so long after their physical prime anyway?

Take the brutal 12thcenturypill.
 
NOOOOOOOOOOO BUT MUH FEUDALISM, NO MEDICINE, NO SMARTPHONES, NO ETHNIC CUISINE, NO DEMOCRACY, NO WOMEN RIGHTS, NO STAR WARS BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

1547506585942
 
I mean, that's not saying much.

Most wild animals have a better standard of living than a modern human.
 
"Women's rights" was a mistake
 
Jfl at people thinking they are lucky being born into this era
 
Even a 12th century European peasant lived better than the average Western man today. Average 12th century peasant would get married to a young virgin, work much less than a regular wagecuck and eat healthier food. The only thing he needed to do was to pay a small tribute to his lord and it was way less than what you pay in taxes now.
I mean, that's not saying much.

Most wild animals have a better standard of living than a modern human.
 
JFL at how bad the Western society is when it managed to regress from the middle ages so badly.

Even a 12th century European peasant lived better than the average Western man today. Average 12th century peasant would get married to a young virgin, work much less than a regular wagecuck and eat healthier food. The only thing he needed to do was to pay a small tribute to his lord and it was way less than what you pay in taxes now.

Average Western man in 12th century is either an incel or gets an old promiscous woman who divorces him, he works like a slave for some corporation and struggles to survive financially. He eats poisoned junk food and is addicted to hundreds of harmful things just to keep coping with his shit society.

And don't come up with shit like "but we live longer now" because we all know that for most men after 25 years of age this isn't living anymore but just rotting for decades until death, and for many it never began. What is the point of people living so long after their physical prime anyway?

Take the brutal 12thcenturypill.
pretty much

honestly the worst one is the anti depressants, those should fit into harmful addictive things but they are the most insidious of all

imagine getting people used to the idea that they need an addictive psychoactive medicine, starting from adolescence, just to get through their day in the 21st century, wowee....
 
Of course we do. Technology is expensive, therefore the only people that really benefit from it are economic elites. Read De Jouvenel. It still amazes me how normies cannot accept a thesis so simple, elegant and well demonstrated.
 
We have a lot of comfort, medical shit and copes, but what's the point when you can't get the most important stuff which is a good young virgin wife and a family you have authority over?
 
its incredible how fucked everything is.
 
A feudal theocracy is close enough to the latter.

"Feudal theocracy" never existed in the first place. It's a worthless modern concept that doesn't apply to history.

I'm a Catholic traditionalist of the old type.
 
"Feudal theocracy" never existed in the first place. It's a worthless modern concept that doesn't apply to history.

I'm a Catholic traditionalist of the old type.
It doesn't matter. Any other non neoliberal system could potentially use the industrialization to a different outcome and for its own goals.

Besides that. Sophistry.

I never said feudal theocracy existed, it's just what I felt you envision.

I don't see where Catholicism is superior on paper. Protestantism seems at least closer to Jesus' original teachings. Maybe it is to tolerant for you, idk, but if you are not a true believer anyway, you might as well dump all this religious bullshit and become a scientific advocate for whatever system, which benefits society the most in your opinion.

God is just used for whatever the current elite needs to advocate for, it can't replace rational self-advocacy.

But enlighten me about what your true catholic traditionalism specifically offers making it so distinct that you have to deflect any broader categorizations.

Btw I contentually agree with your original statements. In absolute terms we might do better, but in relative terms not that much. Also what does it help when you lose quality of life in certain key areas.

The (imo) questionable feudal power structure just got replaced as well with a new elite, granted they know better how far they can go and have the ressources needed to keep the necessary precentages of the population in check, but we already had this discussion elsewhere.
 
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It doesn't matter. Any other non neoliberal system could potentially use the industrialization to a different outcome and for its own goals.

Besides that. Sophistry.

I never said feudal theocracy existed, it's just what I felt you envision.

I don't see where Catholicism is superior on paper. Protestantism seems at least closer to Jesus' original teachings. Maybe it is to tolerant for you, idk, but if you are not a true believer anyway, you might as well dump all this religious bullshit and become a scientific advocate for whatever system, which benefits society the most in your opinion.

God is just used for whatever the current elite needs to advocate for, it can't replace rational self-advocacy.

But enlighten me about what your true catholic traditionalism specifically offers making it so distinct that you have to deflect any broader categorizations.
Btw I contentually agree to your original statements. In absolute terms we might do better, but in relative terms not that much. The (imo) questionable feudal power structure just got replaced with a new elite, granted they know better how far they can go and have the ressources needed to keep the necessary precentages of the population in check, but we already had this discussion elsewhere.

Catholicism and Protestantism are different like night and day. In many things, Protestants even have much more in common with Muslims in their understanding of society and how it should function than with Catholics.

For example theocracy was never a concept that even existed in Catholicism. Theocracy exists in Judaism and Islam, and certain Protestants examples in the past were also theocratic. In theocracy a secular ruler is supposed to be chosen by God like for example Muhammad leading Muslims or Caliph in Caliphate. So in such way, God rules through him and the laws, eg. "theocracy". But in Catholicism the pope is not a secular ruler, secular states were ruled by Kings and other secular rulers. This is why in Catholic medieval ages a very complex political and social system emerged that can't be categorized and compared with anything else. Jesus himself said that his kingdom is not of this world so it would be weird to be "theocratic" sensu strictu in Catholicism. Instead you need to push towards certain Catholic values being represented in society and spread religion.

It's hard to see Protestantism being close to Jesus' teachings when they can't even agree with what those teachings were. There are hundreds of protestant "churches" and they differ radically in their interpretation of Christianity between each other not even counting all the individual protestant "Christians" who think they can interprete the Bible on their own and pick and choose whatever they like. Jesus Christ founded the Catholic Church which has apostolic tradition and continuity - if you're a Catholic you believe this. If you're a Protestant then you somehow believe that Jesus founded 1000+ different churches for whatever reason. Like one Catholic priest once said, "If you believe in Protestantism you need to believe that God made a mistake when he created his first Church and why would God make mistakes?". This is why Catholicism is the only form of Christianity that makes sense. You could also make an argument for Orthodoxy because they have a similar continuity and their doctrine is pretty much the same as Catholic. Everything else is just people making up their own personal religion without any authority.

Protestantism and similar heresies were a result of local elites trying to become more autonomous and it lead to secularism and destruction of traditional type of society. Luther was protected by German nobles. There are also numerous other traits that Protestantism left that lead to what we have now. For example the famous book from Weber talks about the connection with capitalism and so on.

The problem with protestantism was also that Catholicism got protestantized as well after the reformation and adopted certain things. Like for example translating the Bible into vernacular languages which led to a lot of confusion and mistakes in translation. Catholicism right now is heavily distorted and many Catholics are very unfamiliar with the doctrine.

There is also for example a huge difference in attitude towards art, music, marriage etc. In this case Protestants are very close to Muslims, or at least they were in the past. For example Protestants prefer to have this minimalistic religion, while Catholicism is about huge cathedrals, art, music, greatness. Catholicism also considers celibacy to be the most superior form of life, priests have to be celibate, there is monasticism. In Protestantism even priests get married, there are no monasteries. Again, similar to Muslims.

Protestants believe in predetermination just like Muslims in Jews where God supposedly predestined certain people to hell and they have no free will. This is why it would be absurd for incel to follow protestantism because protestants have this attituted that if you're ugly and poor God has somehow probably predestined you to hell and this is your punishment. Weber argues that this attitude inspired capitalist mentality which flourished in protestant states like USA - if you're rich that means God loves you, justification for wealth etc. In Catholicism you have free will, you're responsible for your action or whether you get in heaven or not.

Also protestants are against saints, just like Muslims. They consider this "paganism". Catholicism has a bunch of saints and relics.

And so on and so on.
 
NOOOOOOOOOOO BUT MUH FEUDALISM, NO MEDICINE, NO SMARTPHONES, NO ETHNIC CUISINE, NO DEMOCRACY, NO WOMEN RIGHTS, NO STAR WARS BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

View attachment 179903
brutal. hard times make great men. easy times make weak men. we are in the era of weak men.:feelscry:
h
Catholicism and Protestantism are different like night and day. In many things, Protestants even have much more in common with Muslims in their understanding of society and how it should function than with Catholics.

For example theocracy was never a concept that even existed in Catholicism. Theocracy exists in Judaism and Islam, and certain Protestants examples in the past were also theocratic. In theocracy a secular ruler is supposed to be chosen by God like for example Muhammad leading Muslims or Caliph in Caliphate. So in such way, God rules through him and the laws, eg. "theocracy". But in Catholicism the pope is not a secular ruler, secular states were ruled by Kings and other secular rulers. This is why in Catholic medieval ages a very complex political and social system emerged that can't be categorized and compared with anything else. Jesus himself said that his kingdom is not of this world so it would be weird to be "theocratic" sensu strictu in Catholicism. Instead you need to push towards certain Catholic values being represented in society and spread religion.

It's hard to see Protestantism being close to Jesus' teachings when they can't even agree with what those teachings were. There are hundreds of protestant "churches" and they differ radically in their interpretation of Christianity between each other not even counting all the individual protestant "Christians" who think they can interprete the Bible on their own and pick and choose whatever they like. Jesus Christ founded the Catholic Church which has apostolic tradition and continuity - if you're a Catholic you believe this. If you're a Protestant then you somehow believe that Jesus founded 1000+ different churches for whatever reason. Like one Catholic priest once said, "If you believe in Protestantism you need to believe that God made a mistake when he created his first Church and why would God make mistakes?". This is why Catholicism is the only form of Christianity that makes sense. You could also make an argument for Orthodoxy because they have a similar continuity and their doctrine is pretty much the same as Catholic. Everything else is just people making up their own personal religion without any authority.

Protestantism and similar heresies were a result of local elites trying to become more autonomous and it lead to secularism and destruction of traditional type of society. Luther was protected by German nobles. There are also numerous other traits that Protestantism left that lead to what we have now. For example the famous book from Weber talks about the connection with capitalism and so on.

The problem with protestantism was also that Catholicism got protestantized as well after the reformation and adopted certain things. Like for example translating the Bible into vernacular languages which led to a lot of confusion and mistakes in translation. Catholicism right now is heavily distorted and many Catholics are very unfamiliar with the doctrine.

There is also for example a huge difference in attitude towards art, music, marriage etc. In this case Protestants are very close to Muslims, or at least they were in the past. For example Protestants prefer to have this minimalistic religion, while Catholicism is about huge cathedrals, art, music, greatness. Catholicism also considers celibacy to be the most superior form of life, priests have to be celibate, there is monasticism. In Protestantism even priests get married, there are no monasteries. Again, similar to Muslims.

Protestants believe in predetermination just like Muslims in Jews where God supposedly predestined certain people to hell and they have no free will. This is why it would be absurd for incel to follow protestantism because protestants have this attituted that if you're ugly and poor God has somehow probably predestined you to hell and this is your punishment. Weber argues that this attitude inspired capitalist mentality which flourished in protestant states like USA - if you're rich that means God loves you, justification for wealth etc. In Catholicism you have free will, you're responsible for your action or whether you get in heaven or not.

Also protestants are against saints, just like Muslims. They consider this "paganism". Catholicism has a bunch of saints and relics.

And so on and so on.
how Is predestination wrong? if your born to a criminal, your genes will be of a criminal, you will have criminal influencrs and thus be damned to hell if it were to exist. predestination is a very real thing.
a shitty immoral family with shit genes will shitty immoral kids who have no hope of ever attaining redemption
 
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For example theocracy was never a concept that even existed in Catholicism. Theocracy exists in Judaism and Islam, and certain Protestants examples in the past were also theocratic. In theocracy a secular ruler is supposed to be chosen by God like for example Muhammad leading Muslims or Caliph in Caliphate. So in such way, God rules through him and the laws, eg. "theocracy". But in Catholicism the pope is not a secular ruler, secular states were ruled by Kings and other secular rulers. This is why in Catholic medieval ages a very complex political and social system emerged that can't be categorized and compared with anything else. Jesus himself said that his kingdom is not of this world so it would be weird to be "theocratic" sensu strictu in Catholicism. Instead you need to push towards certain Catholic values being represented in society and spread religion.

It's hard to see Protestantism being close to Jesus' teachings when they can't even agree with what those teachings were. There are hundreds of protestant "churches" and they differ radically in their interpretation of Christianity between each other not even counting all the individual protestant "Christians" who think they can interprete the Bible on their own and pick and choose whatever they like. Jesus Christ founded the Catholic Church which has apostolic tradition and continuity - if you're a Catholic you believe this. If you're a Protestant then you somehow believe that Jesus founded 1000+ different churches for whatever reason. Like one Catholic priest once said, "If you believe in Protestantism you need to believe that God made a mistake when he created his first Church and why would God make mistakes?". This is why Catholicism is the only form of Christianity that makes sense. You could also make an argument for Orthodoxy because they have a similar continuity and their doctrine is pretty much the same as Catholic. Everything else is just people making up their own personal religion without any authority.

Protestantism and similar heresies were a result of local elites trying to become more autonomous and it lead to secularism and destruction of traditional type of society. Luther was protected by German nobles. There are also numerous other traits that Protestantism left that lead to what we have now. For example the famous book from Weber talks about the connection with capitalism and so on.

The problem with protestantism was also that Catholicism got protestantized as well after the reformation and adopted certain things. Like for example translating the Bible into vernacular languages which led to a lot of confusion and mistakes in translation. Catholicism right now is heavily distorted and many Catholics are very unfamiliar with the doctrine.

There is also for example a huge difference in attitude towards art, music, marriage etc. In this case Protestants are very close to Muslims, or at least they were in the past. For example Protestants prefer to have this minimalistic religion, while Catholicism is about huge cathedrals, art, music, greatness. Catholicism also considers celibacy to be the most superior form of life, priests have to be celibate, there is monasticism. In Protestantism even priests get married, there are no monasteries. Again, similar to Muslims.

Protestants believe in predetermination just like Muslims in Jews where God supposedly predestined certain people to hell and they have no free will. This is why it would be absurd for incel to follow protestantism because protestants have this attituted that if you're ugly and poor God has somehow probably predestined you to hell and this is your punishment. Weber argues that this attitude inspired capitalist mentality which flourished in protestant states like USA - if you're rich that means God loves you, justification for wealth etc. In Catholicism you have free will, you're responsible for your action or whether you get in heaven or not.

Also protestants are against saints, just like Muslims. They consider this "paganism". Catholicism has a bunch of saints and relics.

And so on and so on.

You've tried so hard to compare Islam with Protestantism (not just on this thread) and you have failed on every account.

Islamic governance isn't a theocracy neither is it a secular institution. You can't use secular paradigms and vocabulary to understand it. The caliph doesn't have religious authority, anything the caliph did needed the justification of scholars. He never had legal powers, only administrative powers and discretionary powers (known as qanun) as legal authority belong to the ulema who decided to make laws and apply them at a local level. The Sharia and fiqh isn't a set of laws, but body of knowledge and methodology which deducts the law. That is why you have 'sultanates' coexisting with 'caliphates', al-Ghazali and al-Mawardi (two of the most authoritative political theorists) drew up a multilateral conception of the "caliphate" as local leaders and 'sultans' got more powers and developed their own kingdoms. You can read al-Ghazali's ideas about the caliphate here: https://www.ghazali.org/articles/binder.pdf

Don't bother responding and providing a counter-argument to what I said if you don't read it fully.


Most muslims do to some extent follow predestination but its doesn't completely follow it - only the Athari/Salafi school of theology (less than 2% of Muslims) follow believe in determinism. The Ashari school believe in some kind of compatibilist idea of free will and determinism - but not necessarily every Ashari scholar, as some like Said Nursi believed in free will completely. The Maturidi school believes in free will, so did the mutazilites as well. These two schools (Ashari and Maturidi) are followed by most Muslims (over 90%).

How are Muslims against saints? The word wali is literally an Islamic saint. They have had many saints and mystics over the years. Rumi, Abdul Qadir Jilani, Ibn Arabi, Rabia of Baghdad, Junayd of Baghdad - obviously you don't know these names, but even a cursory google search can tell you a lot. The only people against saints - they are surprise, surprise Wahhabi groups who consider it a for of polytheism.

You're understanding of Islam is basically an understanding of the Salafi-Wahhabi creed - who actually are very similar to Protestants. I can't be bothered to discuss Islam with you, as you clearly can't comprehend ideas besides things that conform to your understanding of it (understanding Islam insofar as it resembles Protestantism), and like I said if that's the yardstick you use, only Salafi-Wahhabis are the ones you're accurately describing.
 
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And don't come up with shit like "but we live longer now" because we all know that for most men after 25 years of age this isn't living anymore but just rotting for decades until death, and for many it never began. What is the point of people living so long after their physical prime anyway?
Contrary to popular belief, people are dying earlier (not early like in the medieval days). Depression and unhealthy lifestyles are taking its toll.
 
On the bright side, we have gunpowder and explosives now for when we have to inevitably fix society.
 
JFL at how bad the Western society is when it managed to regress from the middle ages so badly.

Even a 12th century European peasant lived better than the average Western man today. Average 12th century peasant would get married to a young virgin, work much less than a regular wagecuck and eat healthier food. The only thing he needed to do was to pay a small tribute to his lord and it was way less than what you pay in taxes now.

Average Western man in 12th century is either an incel or gets an old promiscous woman who divorces him, he works like a slave for some corporation and struggles to survive financially. He eats poisoned junk food and is addicted to hundreds of harmful things just to keep coping with his shit society.

And don't come up with shit like "but we live longer now" because we all know that for most men after 25 years of age this isn't living anymore but just rotting for decades until death, and for many it never began. What is the point of people living so long after their physical prime anyway?

Take the brutal 12thcenturypill.

The chronopill?
 
The Sharia isn't a set of laws, but body of knowledge and methodology which deducts the law.
This is not entirely true.The Sharia IS a set of laws,commonly found in the Quran,Hadits and the testimonies of the friends of Mohammes.
When the laws are not found in those sources they will create new laws whose basis varied among different schools of Islam.
 
at least they owned vast parts of land now we own nintendo switches and a juul
 
i dont know much about history and never paid attention in school ,
so im just gonna take your word for it .
We were born into this endless race of capitalism
and the only good side effect is this massive amounts of copes we have roight at our fingertips .
Still it would be better to live an easier and more traditional life ,
even if we would die way earlier .
I would love to forget about the luxuries of the 21st century .
 

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