The intuition argument for god.

ryhan

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P1 platonic concepts exist in mathematics.
P2 the universe is mathematical.
P3 these concepts will always exist platonic-ally as the concepts of the Pythagorean therom always apply in the universe
P4 if the universe is 100% percent mathematics it too must exist platonic-ally.
P5 law's must be given by some mind as these platonic concepts exist every where something must have set it.
P6 god then must be the transcendental law giver.
P7 a all knowing god must exist
 
pp183

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stopped making sense after P5
 
needsolution

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td;lr: god doesnt exist
 
Dionysus

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i can comprehend this madness
 
maskedman

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P1 platonic concepts exist in mathematics.
P2 the universe is mathematical.
P3 these concepts will always exist platonic-ally as the concepts of the Pythagorean therom always apply in the universe
P4 if the universe is 100% percent mathematics it too must exist platonic-ally.
P5 law's must be given by some mind as these platonic concepts exist every where something must have set it.
P6 god then must be the transcendental law giver.
P7 a all knowing god must exist
What does P1 mean?
 
virgin4life

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The universe is mathematical? What the fuck does that even mean?
So certain immaterial laws exist in nature always like the Pythagorean therome
The Pythagorean therome does not exist. It is a description of how things relate to each other. Numbers don't exist.

Could the argument be summarized as: "If 1 and 1 equals 2 then someone must have thought of this law and created it" ? Because if this is the argument it makes no sense. Nobody needs to make 1 and 1 equal 2 in order for it to be this way. Why would someone need to make it? Why can't it just be this way? You can not say: "Because human laws are created by humans that means that mathematical laws must have made by someone" because we already know that human laws are created by humans but we have no standard whatsoever by which we could tell whether mathematical laws require a creator or not. There is nothing we could compare them to and look at to see if those laws were created or just are true because that is the way it is. You can not compare human laws to laws of mathematics and nature.
 
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schrodingercoper

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Where's the conclusion?
 
ryhan

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The universe is mathematical? What the fuck does that even mean?


The Pythagorean therome does not exist. It is a description of how things relate to each other. Numbers don't exist.




The universe is mathmatical is to say it is a universal language and the universe functions of this language you cannot separate the 2 the universe does not prove math quite the contrary math proves the universe as we need mathmatical proofs for even the most basic functions and these exist conceptually the laws of logic presuppose that 1 identity must be itself and cannot be 2 things at once even that is a mathmatical concept in maths we could call it p1=p1.



As for numbers yes they due the conceptually they exist in space time but they exist mentally and still is exsistance as reality is emergent from consciousness so they have an exsistance in as consciousness fundamental as to deny this is to deny your own consciousness.

P1 consciousness is not a illusion .
P2 consciousness is not reducible to matter as when we do brain scans we cannot see 100 trillion atoms firing.
P3 if consciousness is not reduce-able matter and it is not a illusion than it is fundemental.
P4 substance dualism goes out the window as the interaction problem.
C1 consciousness is fundamental and we are living in bishop Berkeley's mind of god.
C2 reality emerges from thought.
C3 platonic concepts must have a reality of their own.

So the Pythagorean therome does exist conceptually maybe not physically but mentally yes
Where's the conclusion?



Yes i was to retarded to write that down sorry i'm low iq
 
virgin4life

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So the Pythagorean therome does exist conceptually maybe not physically but mentally yes
Not sure where you got this argument from. I used to spend some time reading stuff from William Lane Craig and similar other folks. The thing is what they do is to make a claim and formulate it as complicated as possible so that you do not even understand what the fuck he is even talking about and then make yourself look stupid when you try to understand what the fuck he is even talking about.

Let's just make it simple, shall we? Logical and mathematical laws are a description of how things relate in the external world. Whether you claim they exist in some abstract sense or not is merely a matter of how you define terms and thus a load of irrelevant bullshit. What we can say for sure is that your original P5 is something you are merely pulling out of your ass since there is no reason to believe that a description of how things relate to each other such as 1+1=2 require a creator. You can not look at other laws and say: "Oh look, the law that you have to pay taxes was created by someone so that means 1+1=2 must also have been decided by someone". No it does not follow because you can not compare mathematical laws with human laws and there is no instance of laws that were created by humans or anyone else for that matter that we could use as a standard to determine if mathematical laws must have been created as well.

Basically the argument is circular because P5 simply assumes what it tries to prove: That there is a God that created all that stuff.
 
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ryhan

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Not sure where you got this argument from. I used to spend some time reading stuff from William Lane Craig and similar other folks.


This argument is from idealists it's mainly johnanan raatz that helped popularize this concept to me anyways but numbers have a form of reality on their platonically to do other wise is to deny consciousness and that leads to solipsism.

I get ya that's why i am trying to simplify the argument.

Let's just make it simple, shall we? Logical and mathematical laws are a description of how things relate in the external world.


But the external world emerges from mind so the law's would still very much be real the physical descriptions of the abstracts still have realism to them think of physical reality as emergent from mind.


Whether you claim they exist in some abstract sense or not is merely a matter of how you define terms and thus a load of irrelevant bullshit.


Well what i mean is thoughts are real but they are not real in the physical sense in other words they are not points in space or time but they exist your consiousness is not a point in space or time it's contained within the brain sure but the mechanism of it's functioning is an abstract thing you cannot deny consciousnesses it is fundamental.



P1 thoughts exist.
P2 Our mind moves towards order and harmony.
P3 the universe has order and harmony like the laws of logic
P4abstract conceptions exist
P5 the laws of logic are abstract concepts as they can not be found in space or time.
P6 if our mind moves towards abstract logical concepts and they exist in a lesser form likewise the greater reality this one is but a thought in the greater mind your.
C1 abstraction are fundamental in reality as if our minds can construct order and harmony and create rational worlds this follows a greater mind must do the same.
C2 Reality is dependent on gods mind as reality is harmonious as we can see by the laws of logic.
C3 god is fundamental in everything without god their is no reality as reality is a thought in gods head as thoughts exist and the universe being logical and harmonious perhaps harmony is not the right word harmony suggests their is some purpose think logicality the universe is logical.


. What we can say for sure is that your original P5 is something you are merely pulling out of your ass since there is no reason to believe that a description of how things relate to each other such as 1+1=2 require a creator.


Okay here is how i will reframe it it.

P1 the universe has physical laws.
P2 those laws are abstractions such as the laws of logic.
P3 our mind constructs abstract worlds in our head that is logical.
P4 those thoughts are real conceptions.
P5 god does the same with reality reality then would be logical.
C1 the laws must be set by a god and we are in it's mind as the laws are logical.
C2 the law's must then fundamentally have some form of awareness behind it if we can logicallicaty in nature and our mind moves towards logic and reason then that being reasoned gods mind must act similar and act towards logic and reason.

No it does not follow because you can not compare mathematical laws with human laws and there is no instance of laws that were created by humans or anyone else for that matter that we could use as a standard to determine if mathematical laws must have been created as well.


Well mathematical law is human law as mathematics is universal 2 plus 2 here is 4 on the other side of the galaxy the laws of logic is intuitive within us so is mathmatical law's as math proves the laws of logic those are also mathematical laws we can prove that in physical concrete math the laws of logic exist they are not changeable so again they must have been ordered by a mind as our minds move towards logic and reason.


P1 Things must have a begging point as to say other wise is to evoke zeno paradox.
P2 Mathematical law's is logical and fundamental to reality.
P3 Logic asserts all things have a begging point infinity is a logical paradox.
P4 the laws must have had a start point.
P5 the laws follow a natural order from the laws of non contradiction.
P6 abstract thoughts like these laws exist fundamentally in reality.
Our mind creates logical order and harmony
P7 THEN reality must be inside the mind of a higher being.
C1 math has a law giver
C2 it did have a start point as to deny this is to envoke infinities.
C3 god is fundamental to the logical law's.
C4 reality emerges from the mind of god
 
Remyx

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Don't get what you said, but god isn't real
 
BrendioEEE

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(((Math Worship)))
Nikola-Tesla-Quotes-with-Photos.jpg
 
ryhan

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P1 the universe works in math and logic.
P2 things break down to smaller bits.
P3 matter is reduce able to ibdivible units of measurement.
P4 if thoughts are emergent from the mind and Abstractions exist and our mind works towards logic and reason than the universe must be emergent from a higher mind that works towards logic and reason.
C1 the universe is emergent from a higher mind as. We can construct orderly laws that emerge from mind so 2 the universe being orderly must be a platonic construction of a God mind.
C2 we are in the mind of god
 
jackwolfskin999

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Good morning I hate maths
 
ryhan

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Premise one

The last one should be C for conclusion


That's not the argument the argument was the argument for god rather math itself the fact that the universe is mathmatical self evident everthing is made up of things
 
FinnCel

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That's not the argument the argument was the argument for god rather math itself the fact that the universe is mathmatical self evident everthing is made up of things
Have you heard of Alvin Plantinga's modal ontological argument?

Premise 1: It is possible that God exists.
Premise 2: If it is possible that God exists, then God exists in some possible worlds.
Premise 3: If God exists in some possible worlds, then God exists in all possible worlds.
Premise 4: If God exists in all possible worlds, then God exists in the actual world.
Premise 5: If God exists in the actual world, then God exists.
Conclusion: Therefore, God exists.
 
Pewaraw

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This makes no sense,by your argument there must have been something that created god
 
ryhan

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Have you heard of Alvin Plantinga's modal ontological argument?


Also an issue with this argument is that a it assumes human beings can picture perfection I don't think they can my argument primarly is logical conceptions are possible in our head these must exist as mind is not reduce able these cannot be imitations as that assumes a place in space or time these cannot be reflections as that assumes a place in time so mind is fundemntal if thoughts than arise from a non physical mind and we can conceive logical conceptions the universe being grounded in logic must be emergent from a higher mind panendeism if you will
 
FinnCel

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Also an issue with this argument is that a it assumes human beings can picture perfection I don't think they can my argument primarly is logical conceptions are possible in our head these must exist as mind is not reduce able these cannot be imitations as that assumes a place in space or time these cannot be reflections as that assumes a place in time so mind is fundemntal if thoughts than arise from a non physical mind and we can conceive logical conceptions the universe being grounded in logic must be emergent from a higher mind panendeism if you will
You don't need to understand perfection. Simply the possibility of necessary existence implies that a necessary being must exist.
And God is a necessary being by definition
 
ryhan

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This makes no sense,by your argument there must have been something that created god



Not neccarily if we take the transfinite argument that God is older than finite numbers and he stretches back he would exist in a point where their was no conception of space or time so his mind must be outside the conceptions of time or space
 
Pewaraw

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Not neccarily if we take the transfinite argument that God is older than finite numbers and he stretches back he would exist in a point where their was no conception of space or time so his mind must be outside the conceptions of time or space
At this point you're just making things up.
Why can't the universe have existed for ever?We just don't know.
And just because we don't know doesn't mean that god did it.
 
ryhan

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You don't need to understand perfection. Simply the possibility of necessary existence implies that a necessary being must exist.
And God is a necessary being by definition


True but that relies on the Premise atheists agree
 
FinnCel

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True but that relies on the Premise atheists agree
If atheists agree that there is even a small chance that God might exist, then the argument follows that God exists.
It is the job of the atheist to prove God is impossible
 
ryhan

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At this point you're just making things up.
Why can't the universe have existed for ever?We just don't know.
And just because we don't know doesn't mean that god did it.


As I said the premises before also the universe is a things within space and time it cannot be eternal was their exsistance before sure hell I am the opinion that we live in a multiverse and God then would be God over nearly transfinite worlds the argument was never the universe had a begging point their fore God the argument was to lead to Premise 1 that we cannot have xenos paradox so the universe had a begging point
In space time the argument was also things cannot expand backwards infinfitly
If atheists agree that there is even a small chance that God might exist, then the argument follows that God exists.
It is the job of the atheist to prove God is impossible


Again usually every time I have used a similar conception of this argument I got circular responses tbh I prefer not to use it
 
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Modus Coperandi

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every system (of meaningful complexity) includes things that are:
true statements that can't be proven to be true
and false statements that can't be proven to be false.

it's one of the reasons why the universe is non computational, non algorithmic.
god = cope cope cope, gigantic cope.

in nothingness itself lies the potential for everything, everything that can form will form, everything that can be experienced will be experienced.
there is no need for a creator in a system of infinite possibility.
 
ryhan

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every system (of meaningful complexity) includes things that are:
true statements that can't be proven to be true
and false statements that can't be proven to be false.





True but we have base units we all agree on we all agree the universe exists we all agree that mind exists unless your a solipsist we all agree things are made up off smaller bits that's all i need.

it's one of the reasons why the universe is non computational, non algorithmic.
god = cope cope cope, gigantic cope.



Yes i would disagree hugely the entire universe is energy energy is a unit of computation i would argue computation merely means the actions of a mathematical computer like i said before this universe would simple a simulation inside a mathematical mind.


in nothingness itself lies the potential for everything, everything that can form will form, everything that can be experienced will be experienced.
there is no need for a creator in a system of infinite possibility.

Such a concept is logically impossible as infinite system is a contradiction in thought how can something have no begging or end.
 
Algeriancel

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I guess you can say that the golden ration is God's signature.

The problem here is that they think you're talking about God as if he Was a human like entity.
 
ryhan

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I guess you can say that the golden ration is God's signature.

The problem here is that they think you're talking about God as if he Was a human like entity.





He would be then if our minds can conceive of immaterial conceptions like i don't know a phone and we can conceive of it being built by smaller beings going down to a smallest indivisible units and they exist as mind is not reduce-able to non mind than non mental non physical laws like the laws of logic must be outside space time they must not emerge from human thoughts but rather an higher mind god so then would a larger mind.
 
BrendioEEE

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P1 the universe works in math and logic.
P2 things break down to smaller bits.
P3 matter is reduce able to ibdivible units of measurement.
P4 if thoughts are emergent from the mind and Abstractions exist and our mind works towards logic and reason than the universe must be emergent from a higher mind that works towards logic and reason.
C1 the universe is emergent from a higher mind as. We can construct orderly laws that emerge from mind so 2 the universe being orderly must be a platonic construction of a God mind.
C2 we are in the mind of god
This is just meme logic. There are theories/hypothesis we can come to about God, many which are on the side of his existence, statistically. but this aint it.

Honestly in all likelihood, God is just an advanced being from a super technologically advanced proto human species, who created us, using his DNA, as a clone species, and this is overall an artificial habitat in a much larger world, Hunter x Hunter style, as the Jews want to prevent us from finding more continents, and discover hypothetical catgirls and shit. Everything else, such as God's origins, etc, cannot even really be verified, outside of maybe using the meme argument of, "it's just a simulation".
 
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Algeriancel

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This is just meme logic. There are theories/hypothesis we can come to about God, many which are on the side of his existence, statistically. but this aint it.

Honestly in all likelihood, God is just an advanced being from a super technologically advanced proto human species, who created us, using his DNA, as a clone species, and this is overall an artificial habitat in a much larger world, Hunter x Hunter style, as the Jews want to prevent us from finding more continents, and discover hypothetical catgirls and shit. Everything else, such as God's origins, etc, cannot even really be verified, outside of maybe using the meme argument of, "it's just a simulation".
You just went full netero. Never go full netero.
 
ryhan

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This is just meme logic. There are theories/hypothesis we can come to about God, many which are on the side of his existence, statistically. but this aint it.



Hmmmmmmmmm calling something a meme argument doesn't make it a meme argument this argument even works with infinite regress the only things i need is mind exists and mind is not reduce-able and that's it really even if this universe was infite it would be an abstraction in gods head as this universe would be countable infinite

Honestly in all likelihood, God is just an advanced being from a super technologically advanced proto human species, who created us, using his DNA, as a clone species, and this is overall an artificial habitat in a much larger world, Hunter x Hunter style, as the Jews want to prevent us from finding more continents, and discover hypothetical catgirls and shit.


Your reducing god down to a small fucking alien god in my conception a higher infinite mind and we are abstractions in his mind as for cat creatures JFL (((bestiality))) is a disgusting act tbh.Also i forget you reject science in general so you think jew's are to blame most of modern science.

Everything else, such as God's origins, etc, cannot even really be verified, outside of maybe using the meme argument of, "it's just a simulation".


JFL god would be the trancental mind lets say infinite bubble univeses exist god would be a mind above absolute infinity
 
BrendioEEE

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Hmmmmmmmmm calling something a meme argument doesn't make it a meme argument this argument even works with infinite regress the only things i need is mind exists and mind is not reduce-able and that's it really even if this universe was infite it would be an abstraction in gods head as this universe would be countable infinite
It's a meme argument because most of what you're saying is hypothesis/theory that cannot be verified whatsoever.
Your reducing god down to a small fucking alien god in my conception a higher infinite mind and we are abstractions in his mind as for cat creatures JFL (((bestiality))) is a disgusting act tbh.Also i forget you reject science in general so you think jew's are to blame most of modern science.
I don't reject science, I reject most Marxist Scientific Institutions, and non empirical "science", which what most modern science today is. I respect real scientists of the past, such as Nikola Tesla, and some people who are just grinding in these corrupt academic institutions filled with Marxist Liars, sometimes quite literally pushing Satanic agendas. I studied Evolutionary Biology, I was an a well respect, Academic University, it's over because I got kicked out.

I would never call God an Alien, because I believe he probably comes from this greater world. I just believe basically everything can be easily explained in the physical realm, including souls. There are many ways an afterlife, and souls can exist in a physical fashion. It simply does not make sense for God to be this interdimensional higher mind meme, it's illogical, and comes from misinterpretations of the bible, and other religious concepts.

In reality I would assume that God, aswell as the species he comes from, at the higher echelons, has an IQ of around 200-400, they're probably much more genetically superior, from a eugenics standpoint we've probably devolved quite a bit, albeit they will likely be very genetically similar to us, likely because of advanced technology they probably have bred out/removed certain negative traits. A lot of this is assumptions and speculations, but logically speaking, especially STATISTICALLY speaking, it makes a lot more sense. They probably achieved immortality, maybe they don't completely know the origins of their own species, Maybe they do and God genuinely wanted to observe humans were in a more innocent/primitive environment until outside forces fucked it all up.
JFL god would be the trancental mind lets say infinite bubble univeses exist god would be a mind above absolute infinity
Doubt, very unlikely, bubble universes likely don't exist either, if they do, we can't observe them or make that assumption from data we have.
 
ryhan

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It's a meme argument because most of what you're saying is hypothesis/theory that cannot be verified whatsoever.


The argument works with a theory the theory is mind is a non material substance to deny this is to deny conscious awareness as you are speaking to me right know if mind is non material it is not reduce-able to non mind cause how can a conception outside of space time be reduced to a entity in space time my argument mainly works of that and we have evidence to suggest mind is not physical or non physicality of mind.

I don't reject science, I reject most Marxist Scientific Institutions, and non empirical "science", which what most modern science today is.


Their is a huge difference between rejecting gender sciences to out right denying space.

and non empirical "science", which what most modern science today is.


And your assuming our eyes are the standards for evidence we can have non physical evidence our minds cannot comprehend like the law of non contradiction these are not physical things empirical science as you put it needs so much presuppositions to even work.

I respect real scientists of the past, such as Nikola Tesla, and some people who are just grinding in these corrupt academic institutions filled with Marxist Liars, sometimes quite literally pushing Satanic agendas.


Okay Tesla was good but he was not correct on everything tbh as for corrupt institutions i mean that's genetic fallacy if your saying you can discredit the sciences cause of a few bad apples yes their is some bad apples in a tree but does that mean most is wrong ? as for the satanic agenda I don't think their is one tbh you can qoute mine some jew all you want but it changes nothing that certain groups want the best for themselves.


I studied Evolutionary Biology, I was an a well respect, Academic University, it's over because I got kicked out.


Okay but that does not mean you can discount stuff like mathematics and science cause you got kicked out 1 time plus i don't know the context behind it i cant have an opinion you must have done something.

I would never call God an Alien, because I believe he probably comes from this greater world. I just believe basically everything can be easily explained in the physical realm, including souls.

Okay greater world what are you referring to ? heaven or hell those conceptions are ridiculous and make sense ethically or morally where would they come into this and where is it ? as for souls i think that is a ridiculous concept how can a non physical thing influence a physical thing so souls are out tbh.

There are many ways an afterlife, and souls can exist in a physical fashion


The conception of a soul is retarded all is mind this is the conclusion nearly all off the most famous scientists came to even they were convinced we were in a mind of some sorts the mind of god as i call it i truly belive this.

As for an after life this is ridiclous we have very different of god tbh mine is a mind outside of absolute infinity itself your's is the same cliche heaven and hell sky daddy tbh.

It simply does not make sense for God to be this interdimensional higher mind meme, it's illogical, and comes from misinterpretations of the bible, and other religious concepts.


I'm not a christian in the classical sense i'm leaning more towards strong panendeism at this point god contains all the infinite universes but is also transcends all it
belief in a god who is both panentheistic and deistic, e.g. a god who contains all of the universe, but who nevertheless transcends or has some existence separate from the universe, who does interact, but does not necessarily intervene in the universe, and that a personal relationship can be achieved with it, in as much as a person can have a relationship with his/her own rational thoughts. Contrasted from Panentheism in that the existence of, and relationship with, the creator god (prime mover) is determined from observance of nature, not rationality and thought.'' prayer to me then would be study of science god would be the greater mind that is trancental beyond all of exsistance but also part of it.


In reality I would assume that God, aswell as the species he comes from, at the higher echelons, has an IQ of around 200-400, they're probably much more genetically superior, from a eugenics standpoint we've probably devolved quite a bit, albeit they will likely be very genetically similar to us, likely because of advanced technology they probably have bred out/removed certain negative traits.

JFL your god is so pathetic he reduces down to biology my god is outside biology he is outside even absolute infinity his mind is what we are in we are abstractions in a beyond infinite god.

A lot of this is assumptions and speculations, but logically speaking, especially STATISTICALLY speaking, it makes a lot more sense. They probably achieved immortality, maybe they don't completely know the origins of their own species, Maybe they do and God genuinely wanted to observe humans were in a more innocent/primitive environment until outside forces fucked it all up.

Panspermia possible but again your placing god down to mere finite beings my god is beyond absolute infinity he is the observer outside of all the bubble universes outside of absolute infinity.

Doubt, very unlikely, bubble universes likely don't exist either, if they do, we can't observe them or make that assumption from data we have.

But it is a likely canditate from the evidence
 
BrendioEEE

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The argument works with a theory the theory is mind is a non material substance to deny this is to deny conscious awareness as you are speaking to me right know if mind is non material it is not reduce-able to non mind cause how can a conception outside of space time be reduced to a entity in space time my argument mainly works of that and we have evidence to suggest mind is not physical or non physicality of mind.
Again this cannot be proven empirically.
Their is a huge difference between rejecting gender sciences to out right denying space.
I don't think I have actually unironically argued this before, but you literally cannot empirically prove, space is real.
And your assuming our eyes are the standards for evidence we can have non physical evidence our minds cannot comprehend like the law of non contradiction these are not physical things empirical science as you put it needs so much presuppositions to even work.
These Marxist institutions aren't the standard for evidence, well maybe to normies and modern science worshippers they are, but empiricism, and trustworthy institutions should at least be the base of the science. We have basically neither.
Okay Tesla was good but he was not correct on everything tbh as for corrupt institutions i mean that's genetic fallacy if your saying you can discredit the sciences cause of a few bad apples yes their is some bad apples in a tree but does that mean most is wrong ? as for the satanic agenda I don't think their is one tbh you can qoute mine some jew all you want but it changes nothing that certain groups want the best for themselves.
This isn't just a few bad apples, the heads, and top voices/influences, of just about every single scientific, and academic institution, is corrupt, and a tool of Marxism, and Propaganda. This isn't the apples that are the problem, this is the tree itself, that is rotted to the roots.
Okay but that does not mean you can discount stuff like mathematics and science cause you got kicked out 1 time plus i don't know the context behind it i cant have an opinion you must have done something.
I can, you can't substitute math, theory, etc for actual empirical science, and experiments. You can write flawless equations for many things, but equations are not infallible, especially when REALITY ITSELF, can sometimes contradict the equation, which has happened.
Okay greater world what are you referring to ? heaven or hell those conceptions are ridiculous and make sense ethically or morally where would they come into this and where is it ? as for souls i think that is a ridiculous concept how can a non physical thing influence a physical thing so souls are out tbh.
Heaven and Hell are likely physically places, heaven is likely a monitoring station to monitor the earth, aswell as harbor worthy candidates who come from the earth, and what greater world am I referring to? As I said, I am of the opinion, that the earth itself is much much much bigger than we have been lead to believe, not that it's flat, or a disc, or some nonsense like that, just that whatever we are on, is super massive in size, and we only on a small portion of it, and we are being lied to about what it is, so they we do not explore it. God probably comes from outside of this small part of this greater world, and heaven is likely a monitoring station of it, as I said.

Hell is probably the opposite to heaven, possibly a physical simulation, where people are forced to suffer, for evils that committed on earth, hell might even be digital simulation that all our minds are linked to, and using advanced technology if we are unforgiving/evil we are forced to suffer in said simulation forever.
The conception of a soul is retarded all is mind this is the conclusion nearly all off the most famous scientists came to even they were convinced we were in a mind of some sorts the mind of god as i call it i truly belive this.
Not really, a soul can easily be explained scientifically using advanced technology. For example, it's very possible each and every single one of us is actually a super advanced microorganism, that uses our body as a host, possibly in our pineal gland, when our body dies, it perhaps leaves our body, possibly even interdimensionally to a degree, for safe transport, to "heaven" to be judged, and there said organism may possibly be given a new physical body, or forced to suffer in a hellish simulation, or maybe just put on hold in a limbo state.

This is just one hypothetical way souls can exist in a physical form/fashion, especially when it take into account a hyper advanced species that has access to technology thousands of years more advanced than ours.
As for an after life this is ridiclous we have very different of god tbh mine is a mind outside of absolute infinity itself your's is the same cliche heaven and hell sky daddy tbh.
I'm not a christian in the classical sense i'm leaning more towards strong panendeism at this point god contains all the infinite universes but is also transcends all it
belief in a god who is both panentheistic and deistic, e.g. a god who contains all of the universe, but who nevertheless transcends or has some existence separate from the universe, who does interact, but does not necessarily intervene in the universe, and that a personal relationship can be achieved with it, in as much as a person can have a relationship with his/her own rational thoughts. Contrasted from Panentheism in that the existence of, and relationship with, the creator god (prime mover) is determined from observance of nature, not rationality and thought.'' prayer to me then would be study of science god would be the greater mind that is trancental beyond all of exsistance but also part of it.
Yeah I get it you get your ideas from bluepilled reddit tier sources.
In reality I would assume that God, aswell as the species he comes from, at the higher echelons, has an IQ of around 200-400, they're probably much more genetically superior, from a eugenics standpoint we've probably devolved quite a bit, albeit they will likely be very genetically similar to us, likely because of advanced technology they probably have bred out/removed certain negative traits.
JFL your god is so pathetic he reduces down to biology my god is outside biology he is outside even absolute infinity his mind is what we are in we are abstractions in a beyond infinite god.

Panspermia possible but again your placing god down to mere finite beings my god is beyond absolute infinity he is the observer outside of all the bubble universes outside of absolute infinity.

But it is a likely canditate from the evidence
The difference being your God is a satanic tier reddit myth, based off of meme science, and mine is statistically real from observable empirical evidence and data.
 
ryhan

ryhan

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Again this cannot be proven empirically

Your using a non emperical thing to debunk using a emperical system?

1 thing that exist space and time must have a length and time as length takes up space and time explanatory
2consiousnes exists outside of space time.
C1 consciousness can be intuitively proven.

I don't think I have actually unironically argued this before, but you literally cannot empirically prove, space is real.

A you have argued parts of this as you keep pinning again jews as taking over the universities to support feminism I assumed you were talking about mainly this as for space yes you can prove it look at an electron it is orbiting in empty space we can also emperically prove the electron.


These Marxist institutions aren't the standard for evidence, well maybe to normies and modern science worshippers they are, but empiricism, and trustworthy institutions should at least be the base of the science. We have basically neither.

Except it isn't just hear say their is rigirous testing for every claim to say its merely a satanic conspiracy is extremely reductionist.

This isn't just a few bad apples, the heads, and top voices/influences, of just about every single scientific, and academic institution, is corrupt, and a tool of Marxism, and Propaganda. This isn't the apples that are the problem, this is the tree itself, that is rotted to the roots.


Again in what field I need names cause their are so many fields.

Heaven and Hell are likely physically places, heaven is likely a monitoring station to monitor the earth, aswell as harbor worthy candidates who come from the earth, and what greater world am I referring to? As I said, I am of the opinion, that the earth itself is much much much bigger than we have been lead to believe, not that it's flat, or a disc, or some nonsense like that, just that whatever we are on, is super massive in size, and we only on a small portion of it, and we are being lied to about what it is, so they we do not explore it.

None of what you have just said has been empirically even if what you said were true and the earth were larger this doesn't prove those other things also is heaven here physically is it a star gate a portal is it a location in space time is it in another dimension ?.


Hell is probably the opposite to heaven, possibly a physical simulation, where people are forced to suffer, for evils that committed on earth, hell might even be digital simulation that all our minds are linked to, and using advanced technology if we are unforgiving/evil we are forced to suffer in said simulation forever.

Physical simulation what do you mean a duelist brain in vat situation ? is this what you mean by heaven and hell mere simulations created by a mind ? or it is a physical location like a star gate and again i don't belive consciousness is physical so i don't accept the dualist thesis.

Not really, a soul can easily be explained scientifically using advanced technology. For example, it's very possible each and every single one of us is actually a super advanced microorganism, that uses our body as a host, possibly in our pineal gland, when our body dies, it perhaps leaves our body, possibly even interdimensionally to a degree, for safe transport, to "heaven" to be judged, and there said organism may possibly be given a new physical body, or forced to suffer in a hellish simulation, or maybe just put on hold in a limbo state.


Okay

P1 human beings are advanced organisms.
P2 Our bodies are hosts for some sort of a micro organism.
P3 the pineal gland is the gateway for it's control.
P4 it somehow has a life of it's own that goes to be judged
P5 we are all in a brain in a vat simulation

C1 the soul is merely connected to the pinneal gland.
C2 we have no free will so even in thought this makes no ethical sense.

Your main issue P3/P4/P5 P3 how can the pineal gland host the soul or the micro organism when all we know about it is it secretes growth hormone also your assumption assumes consciousness is some form of a physical or material thing As for the after life We have no proof of a after life it could be real but we don't know i know for a fact reincarnation in some form is real if their are infinite bubble universes assuming the many worlds hypothesis is true i'm not saying it is but if it is it would mean in some sense you are immortal know if an after life in my belife did exist it would be a mere abstraction in gods mind i don't know as for the conclusion the soul is reduce-able to a microorganism that logically then follows we are but mere slaves to the host so we have no free will so what case is their for a just heaven or hell.

This is just one hypothetical way souls can exist in a physical form/fashion, especially when it take into account a hyper advanced species that has access to technology thousands of years more advanced than ours.


Ahhhhhhhh simulation hypothesis main problem i don't use that is to computatate something like an electron more electrons would have to be put in more so than the observable universes combined i move towards a mind rather than a computer all is mind.

1 simulation theory can be imagined.
2 It cannot computed as to computate something like a universe it must have more power than the entire universe itself and to be running constantly.
3 This is not even possible in any time line as far as we are aware the universe is transfinite.
4 to computate a transfinite universe you need a machine longer than transfinite.
5 you can however create abstract worlds as your mind literally works of sense perception your already solipsistic without you realizing it.
6 If we can create abstractions and mind is not reduce-able to matter that means mind is fundemntal it exists that means ideas emerge from a consiousness.
7 the universe being logical must emerge from a higher mind.
8 if we can create metaphysical proofs for the universe being a dream in gods mind but we cannot create scientific proof we are in a simulation than the prior is true thanks to occams.
Conclusion we live in the mind of god we do not live in an ancestor simulation.

Yeah I get it you get your ideas from bluepilled reddit tier sources.



I am the one providing premises and conclusions here you have done jack shit and your's is based on way more assumptions than mine as for soydeddit every time i posted this argument i god shit from atheists yeah no as for blue pill i guess Einstein was blue pilled i guess Schrodinger was blue pilled i guess gorge cantor was blue pilled okay but they gave their proofs of concept and if conception is possible and mind does not reduce to non mind then mind is fundamental then consiousness exists and if our minds can conceive of it and thoughts are real and are universals than infinity a concept in nature should mirror this or rather transfinite and we kinda of get this it's probably not absolute infinite but we can atleast see it higher than countable numbers but anyways the universe then being able to construct these must be abstractions of a god mind.

In reality I would assume that God, aswell as the species he comes from, at the higher echelons, has an IQ of around 200-400, they're probably much more genetically superior, from a eugenics standpoint we've probably devolved quite a bit, albeit they will likely be very genetically similar to us, likely because of advanced technology they probably have bred out/removed certain negative traits.


Again went over this not going over this again.

The difference being your God is a satanic tier reddit myth, based off of meme science, and mine is statistically real from observable empirical evidence and data.

JFL satanic ? how exactly the idea that god is a quantum mathematical super mind is unique to my religion panendeism.As for Reddit cucks they hate this argument.As for yours being statically true your's presupposes that their were alien civilizations before us which is not emperical it is proof by assertion or ipsi dixit.

P1 it is hypothetically possible that at some point a group of intelligent aliens simulate a reality.
P2 Know assume you take this to the universal level we somehow some way managed to create a fully functioning universe.
P3 we would then have to assume all things are reduceable to physical matter or quantum bits.
P4 this would reduce mind to matter or quantum information.
C1 you lead to solipsism you are denying the consious awareness a real phenomena and if it is non physical it cannot be reduced to non mind.
C2 we are living in a solipsistic universe.
 
Sans

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The P in P1, P2, P3 etc. stands for Penis
 
BrendioEEE

BrendioEEE

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Your using a non emperical thing to debunk using a emperical system?

1 thing that exist space and time must have a length and time as length takes up space and time explanatory
2consiousnes exists outside of space time.
C1 consciousness can be intuitively proven.
Incomprehensible
A you have argued parts of this as you keep pinning again jews as taking over the universities to support feminism I assumed you were talking about mainly this as for space yes you can prove it look at an electron it is orbiting in empty space we can also emperically prove the electron.
I don't think you know what empirical evidence is, you can't prove Space is real, i'm referring to outer space.
Except it isn't just hear say their is rigirous testing for every claim to say its merely a satanic conspiracy is extremely reductionist.
The simplest answer, is typically the correct one.
Again in what field I need names cause their are so many fields.
Basically all of them, dead serious, Historians, Paleontologists, Archaeologists, Astronomy, Biology, Astro Biology, Evolutionary Biology, Psychology, just about every medical field in existence, even things that shouldn't even have any politics within them, such as Engineering, and programming, the companies that hire, and are involved with a majority of people involved, have been infiltrated at the highest levels.
None of what you have just said has been empirically even if what you said were true and the earth were larger this doesn't prove those other things also is heaven here physically is it a star gate a portal is it a location in space time is it in another dimension ?.
But it's also statistically more probable and likely FROM the empirical data we have, not space magic, and nonsense like that.
Physical simulation what do you mean a duelist brain in vat situation ? is this what you mean by heaven and hell mere simulations created by a mind ? or it is a physical location like a star gate and again i don't belive consciousness is physical so i don't accept the dualist thesis.
Physical simulations exist even in real life today, we can create artificial environments/simulations in the real world, I don't mean a digital simulation, I mean for example if the world were much bigger for example, and that soul example I gave earlier where we are given a body that can't die via advanced technology, and forced to suffer, in an actual physical place, etc.
Okay

P1 human beings are advanced organisms.
P2 Our bodies are hosts for some sort of a micro organism.
P3 the pineal gland is the gateway for it's control.
P4 it somehow has a life of it's own that goes to be judged
P5 we are all in a brain in a vat simulation

C1 the soul is merely connected to the pinneal gland.
C2 we have no free will so even in thought this makes no ethical sense.
Conclusion 2 makes no sense, but alright.
Your main issue P3/P4/P5 P3 how can the pineal gland host the soul or the micro organism when all we know about it is it secretes growth hormone also your assumption assumes consciousness is some form of a physical or material thing As for the after life We have no proof of a after life it could be real but we don't know i know for a fact reincarnation in some form is real if their are infinite bubble universes assuming the many worlds hypothesis is true i'm not saying it is but if it is it would mean in some sense you are immortal know if an after life in my belife did exist it would be a mere abstraction in gods mind i don't know as for the conclusion the soul is reduce-able to a microorganism that logically then follows we are but mere slaves to the host so we have no free will so what case is their for a just heaven or hell.
ESL is really showing, anyways, again, i'm not sure exactly how said microorganism would function, again its a hypothetical based off of a conclusion based off of physical realities that God is a physical being, from a physical species, is not lying to us, and thus the only way for his truths to be true, would be using advanced technology. We can speculate on what said technology is, but unless we keep developing to figure that out for ourselves, or have access to the technology we likely wouldn't be able to tell what it is anytime soon.
Ahhhhhhhh simulation hypothesis main problem i don't use that is to computatate something like an electron more electrons would have to be put in more so than the observable universes combined i move towards a mind rather than a computer all is mind.
This wasn't about simulation theory, but okay.
1 simulation theory can be imagined.
2 It cannot computed as to computate something like a universe it must have more power than the entire universe itself and to be running constantly.
3 This is not even possible in any time line as far as we are aware the universe is transfinite.
4 to computate a transfinite universe you need a machine longer than transfinite.
5 you can however create abstract worlds as your mind literally works of sense perception your already solipsistic without you realizing it.
6 If we can create abstractions and mind is not reduce-able to matter that means mind is fundemntal it exists that means ideas emerge from a consiousness.
7 the universe being logical must emerge from a higher mind.
8 if we can create metaphysical proofs for the universe being a dream in gods mind but we cannot create scientific proof we are in a simulation than the prior is true thanks to occams.
Conclusion we live in the mind of god we do not live in an ancestor simulation.
I'm not arguing for simulation theory, but this is false, in the sense that you don't have to have an entire universe running at once in a simulation, you only need data for how things should be, and you only need to render things when necessary, such as when an area is being observed by eyes, in fact, there are ways to have an entire universe without having to render much at all, in the simulation, using tricks on the AI, also you're assuming the universe is this vast infinite meme, which isn't the case, and cannot be proven, and is not even likely..
I am the one providing premises and conclusions here you have done jack shit and your's is based on way more assumptions than mine as for soydeddit every time i posted this argument i god shit from atheists yeah no as for blue pill i guess Einstein was blue pilled i guess Schrodinger was blue pilled i guess gorge cantor was blue pilled okay but they gave their proofs of concept and if conception is possible and mind does not reduce to non mind then mind is fundamental then consiousness exists and if our minds can conceive of it and thoughts are real and are universals than infinity a concept in nature should mirror this or rather transfinite and we kinda of get this it's probably not absolute infinite but we can atleast see it higher than countable numbers but anyways the universe then being able to construct these must be abstractions of a god mind.
Epic
Again went over this not going over this again.
With your ESL tier comprehension skills it wouldn't matter if we did.
JFL satanic ? how exactly the idea that god is a quantum mathematical super mind is unique to my religion panendeism.As for Reddit cucks they hate this argument.As for yours being statically true your's presupposes that their were alien civilizations before us which is not emperical it is proof by assertion or ipsi dixit.
Nothing you say is statistically more likely than what i'm saying, it's so fantastical and statistically improbable, and comes from blindly believing many nonsense theories and then creating more hypothesis and theories from it, I Mean man...lol it's pretty simple.
 
seija

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God doesn't exist, if he did we would be free from our suffering.
 
ryhan

ryhan

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'' Incomprehensible''

1 you have consciousness
2 to deny consciousness is to deny you even exist
3 we can comprehend space and time cause observe space time as we Can prove things that are material take up material space.
C1 it is not Incomprehensible.

I don't think you know what empirical evidence is, you can't prove Space is real, i'm referring to outer space.

I do know what it is but it doesn't always work.

1 we can prove higher dimensions exist mathematically.
2we can not prove it though empirically
C1 things that exist don't always need a 3d perspective.

Also outer space well we can go into outer space they just don't yet cause mainly its very dangerous.

The simplest answer, is typically the correct one

Not when your a reductionist it's 1 thing to say elites control to world but it's another to say most of academia are part of some satanic conspiracy if they are they are unaware of it so its no longer conspriacy.

Basically all of them, dead serious, Historians, Paleontologists, Archaeologists, Astronomy, Biology, Astro Biology, Evolutionary Biology, Psychology, just about every medical field in existence, even things that shouldn't even have any politics within them, such as Engineering, and programming, the companies that hire, and are involved with a majority of people involved, have been infiltrated at the highest levels


This I agree with for once the main issue being a its politics get that shit out of academia and b it just wasted more time if you are going to study a subject religiously read into it.

But it's also statistically more probable and likely FROM the empirical data we have, not space magic, and nonsense like that.


What do you base your stats off of? A transfinite universe as for magic that is what the ignorant use to shut up progress they cannot understand.

Physical simulations exist even in real life today, we can create artificial environments/simulations in the real world, I don't mean a digital simulation, I mean for example if the world were much bigger for example, and that soul example I gave earlier where we are given a body that can't die via advanced technology, and forced to suffer, in an actual physical place, etc.


Oh right my bad I was under the assumption of brain in the vat also even the earth was larger of earth would be a gateway to heaven a star gate even then it heaven would have to something outside of physical simulations. As heaven is outside space time.

Conclusion 2 makes no sense, but alright.


I will explain why i put c2 a if our brain is some sort of a microorganism and we are. Controlled by our Brian and it is the host of the body than we have no free will and this conception of heaven and hell has no ethical or logical purpose.

This wasn't about simulation theory, but okay

I was under that assumption cause that's what they usually refer to with simulation hypothsis.

I'm not arguing for simulation theory, but this is false, in the sense that you don't have to have an entire universe running at once in a simulation, you only need data for how things should be, and you only need to render things when necessary, such as when an area is being observed by eyes, in fact, there are ways to have an entire universe without having to render much at all, in the simulation, using tricks on the AI, also you're assuming the universe is this vast infinite meme, which isn't the case, and cannot be proven, and is not even likely

Ahhhh right you mean deactivating chunks when not observed physical entity see normally that would work but then we but again are you saying the entities in the simulation itself are observers? Cause even that would take tons of data constantly and even would have to be running constantly as we cannot pause reality or space time and your under the assumption theirs only 1 life form added to that your under the assumption I said infinite I mean transfinite.


Also the universe is expanding constantly I haven't done much study into this I don't know much about this topic that being said I know it's not a simple topic but anyways you also have to compute the expanding space the space outside the expansion you also need to do compute the laws of physic to make sure their are no glitches their is so much your leaving out.

Nothing you say is statistically more likely than what i'm saying, it's so fantastical and statistically improbable, and comes from blindly believing many nonsense theories and then creating more hypothesis and theories from it, I Mean man...lol it's pretty simple.



The universe being inside God's dream is not a faith based assumption most scientists are. Moving towards. This as for. Consciousness being fundamental to deny this you are denying you even exist which of you wanna do be my guest and your not even addressing the argument your dismissing at soydeddit tier argument
 
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