Theory This is why I think we need love.

foidologist

foidologist

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You tried to use the fact that foids opinions about stuff that has nothing to do with sex and relationships were not valued by men back in the old days as proof that those men didn't care about foids opinions at all.
I said opinions. You are the one that is redefining it to specifically only mean opinions about things unrelated to sex and relationships. How are you seriously going to try to pull this when I just called you out for it? How are you this shameless? I literally just talked about this and now you're doing it openly.
The definition for validation is the exact same thing I was referring to on our DMs, everything I said in the OP follows the same logic as my DMs, and all of my points in the OP validate everything I said on my DMs. Stop coping.
I pointed out how it doesn't follow with our original comparison of escort vs. gf.
you don't wanna refute the OP cuz you know you can't
I don't want to refute the OP because I don't want to engage in a new argument with a guy that just moves goalposts and changes his argument every time he is losing. Every time a new point is brought up with you it's like an entirely new argument with an entirely new person has begun, because you make zero effort to make anything you say in the new point remain consistent with what you said in previous points. You just want to bait and go back and forth infinitely because you don't want to admit that you were wrong. Earlier I wondered if you have shit reading comprehension or are trolling, but I can see now that it is neither. You are blatantly shifting words around intentionally, but I no longer believe the intention is to troll, but rather just to avoid admitting that you were wrong/changed your argument. I'm not even entertaining it anymore. I responded to this thread to address the slander against me, and I have done that. I do not care to carry on with it any more.
 
Idlevillagercel

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I said opinions. You are the one that is redefining it to specifically only mean opinions about things unrelated to sex and relationships. How are you seriously going to try to pull this when I just called you out for it? How are you this shameless? I literally just talked about this and now you're doing it openly.
More attempts to discredit me. Zero attempts to refute the OP.

If you want people to believe your slander you should try to refute the OP and let them see for themselves whether I use facts and logic in my debates or not.
I pointed out how it doesn't follow with our original comparison of escort vs. gf.
cope
I don't want to refute the OP because I don't want to engage in a new argument with a guy that just moves goalposts and changes his argument every time he is losing. Every time a new point is brought up with you it's like an entirely new argument with an entirely new person has begun, because you make zero effort to make anything you say in the new point remain consistent with what you said in previous points. You just want to bait and go back and forth infinitely because you don't want to admit that you were wrong. Earlier I wondered if you have shit reading comprehension or are trolling, but I can see now that it is neither. You are blatantly shifting words around intentionally, but I no longer believe the intention is to troll, but rather just to avoid admitting that you were wrong/changed your argument. I'm not even entertaining it anymore. I responded to this thread to address the slander against me, and I have done that. I do not care to carry on with it any more.
Translation: "I'm terrified to debate idlevillager on his OP so I'm trying to discredit him even more. I really don't wanna debate him :feels:"

Ok, my friend. I know you're very distressed right now and I don't wish you embarrass you any further. I'll stop discussing this serious topic with you if that makes you feel better. But you can come back when your emotions are in check and we can continue this in the future. I enjoy arguing with you ngl. :feelsaww:
 
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@Dregster666 thoughts on the conversation so far?
 
Dark Enlightenment

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Alright before I begin, weren't you a nihilist a few weeks back? Aren't nihilists supposed to reject absolutes and abstracts because all is meaningless? And now you're putting abstracts such as love, romance, affection and validation on a pedestal as absolutes. Lol you can't make this shit up, so already you're weak minded.
I think it's pretty logical to come to the conclusion that love developed in human beings as an evolutionary tool that increases our chances of reproduction and the survival of our offspring (and even our own survival).

When men fall in love, they want to spend a lot of time with their partner, they do all they can to gain their partner's approval, they feel a strong desire to protect their partner (white knighting), they get jealous when their partner shows interest in other men, and so on and so forth. It's not hard to see that the purpose of all this is to reproduce and make sure your offspring has as many chances at surviving as possible. Men have always competed against each other for pussy and the ones who were able to experience all these feelings had a clear advantage and were more likely to reproduce. We inherited the desire for love because love was an effective way to breed
Love the way you define it isn't an evolutionary tool, it's a tool for society, a noble lie if you will. You see back before the creation of love, men would fuck anything that moved and a women would fuck men who could provide for her and her offspring (resources) and keep her protected (physical strength and power). The man back then didn't have any responsibility to stay with the women so often times they'd either just abandon her or make her apart of his harem of concubines. Humans are naturally polygamous, it is why we have more female ancestors than we do male. Love was created by society as a transaction between two partners to circumvent this natural polygamy into monogamy. Back then this deal was alright ngl but nowadays it's a shit deal because women (especially in the west) are liberated, they don't share as much responsibility as a man. Back in those days you'd be able to divorce your wife if she didn't want to have sex with you (consummation laws) but nowadays if your wife doesn't want to have sex with you then tough shit and if you decide to divorce get ready to get have your shit taken away. It's a shit deal all around, if you can't see it then you're just guided by your emotions and not by reason because it goes against your own interests. You see it's natural for man to love himself (egoist), when man desires a circumstance where he is at a disadvantage he hates himself. This desire for love (as defined by you) is against your interests, a phantom has possessed you to enact the will of an external force, "you've been spooked" as Stirner would say.
The reason why I think this is that the desire to be in a relationship is present in people from all parts of the world nowadays and I assume we inherited that from our prehistoric ancestors.
No lol, love is a spook. It's something they've put into you so that you'd be a good boy and lick the boots of society. Most people have been spooked, it's why most people around the world desire relationships.
However, that doesn't mean that our desire for love is unnatural. You can see men across all the different societies around the world seeking relationships and desiring love. There's a reason all of us share more or
Your desire for love (as defined by you) is indeed unnatural. As I've said before it's natural for man to love himself, when you desire an outcome that doesn't benefit you, you go against your own interests and therefore you hate (unatural) yourself.
You can't get affectionate with a hooker. You pay a prostitute to bust a nut and that's it. There are some special prostitutes that will be affectionate with you and pretend to be your partner but unless you're rich you can forget about that shit.
So what? You don't need affection, someone who desires affection has the narcissistic trait (A narcissist is spooked) for others to admire one's own vanity. When you love yourself (egoist), you don't care for affection and only do what benefits you therefore acquiring just the act if sex itself is reasonable.
True, but that doesn't mean men saw their women as breeding machines and nothing more than that. If you think the average joe back in the day didn't give a single fuck about his woman and had no feelings for her whatsoever then you're clearly coping hard.
That's because the majority of people around the world and throughout history have been spooked. When someone is spooked, they've had a phantom possess them into enacting the will of external forces acting against your own interests.
Trust me, I don't value women's opinions at all. I couldn't care less what they think of me if they're not fucking me. But that's how I am now because of years of inceldom, my views, and my hatred. But I can tell you this, when I was in my redpilled phase and I used to approach foids I never enjoyed the feeling of getting rejected by them. Anyone here who has experienced rejection can tell you it fucking sucks. And anyone who has been led on by a foid can also tell you that it feels amazing when you think you have a chance with her. We are naturally wired to care about foids validation and you can't deny that.
Stop, you do care, no need for you to sugarcoat it. I used to care when I was spooked but since I've embraced egoism I don't pay mind to it because all I can think about is power and wealth. It's a literal obsession.
Friendship and camaraderie also evolved as a means to an end (the end being survival). We want to be friends with people because back in the day, our ancestors' survival depended on those types of relationships. Nowadays, you don't necessarily need to have a social life to survive. A lot of us are able to survive without having friends yet we still want friendship, we feel loneliness, we want to have a sense of belonging, and we want to socialize (even tho we don't need it to survive). All those things are necessary to be happy just as experiencing love is also a fundamental need for a healthy mind. Those of us who don't experience all that shit like we're supposed to end up fucked up in the head. You can't compare fucking a used up junkie hooker to pair bonding with the mother of your child. Achieving reproduction by "other means" does not eliminate our desire for love cuz that shit is in our DNA.
A ton if projection you're doing here. I don't have friends I only have interests. If there's nothing to be gained from forming a relationship with someone then I'm indifferent to them. These days I've not felt loneliness at all, in fact I enjoy being alone, I'm not weak minded so I'm not at all interested in being a part of something greater than myself.

I'm pretty happy actually, my life is looking good and considering my previous circumstances, I turned out pretty well.
 
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Thats alot to read ngl

Give me a quick summary :feelscomfy:
Argument between foidologist and ldarvillagercel about whether a woman's validation is important. foidologist says no and that's something he considers woman worshiping. ldarvillagercel disagrees and says a woman's validation is necessary even though that seems cucked at first because wanting love and validation from women is natural and existed even in more patriarchal societies.
 
Dregster666

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Argument between foidologist and ldarvillagercel about whether a woman's validation is important. foidologist says no and that's something he considers woman worshiping. ldarvillagercel disagrees and says a woman's validation is necessary even though that seems cucked at first because wanting love and validation from women is natural and existed even in more patriarchal societies.
Interesting

@BlkPillPres thoughts?
 
Idlevillagercel

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Is love and romance even real? I use to think it was when I was younger and still wet behind the ears, but now? No way.

No, it's just a transactionary agreement, exchange, or commitment, much like buying a prized cow at an auction.

The cow of course is a metaphor for a woman in the sexual market arena, unless you're really into those big hefty gals with some weight added to them bones in which case metaphor is literal.

Women say they believe they're in love and some even seem to believe it but I think this just female cope so they can deny the real whores they actually are. A whore doesn't want to believe she's renting or selling herself out to a man, it just sounds so much better when you have that word love attached!
I think that love is cope in most cases, the word has been romanticized so much that its meaning doesn't describe something real but an idealized concept in which most people want to believe :bluepill: that's why I clarified what I meant by love so as not to give the wrong idea. But I do agree with what you're saying. Women are whores, and the modern concept of love is bullshit.

Sorry that it took this long for me to reply to your post but I usually don't discuss my opinions with people seriously unless they seem interesting :feelsYall: besides, the original reason why I made this thread was to annoy foidologist as a joke :lul: (tho everything I've posted here are my true thoughts)
 
MarquisDeSade

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I think that love is cope in most cases, the word has been romanticized so much that its meaning doesn't describe something real but an idealized concept in which most people want to believe :bluepill: that's why I clarified what I meant by love so as not to give the wrong idea. But I do agree with what you're saying. Women are whores, and the modern concept of love is bullshit.

Sorry that it took this long for me to reply to your post but I usually don't discuss my opinions with people seriously unless they seem interesting :feelsYall: besides, the original reason why I made this thread was to annoy foidologist as a joke :lul: (tho everything I've posted here are my true thoughts)
The words love and romance is just meaningless words, it's just a clever human trick to deceive ourselves that we're something other than animals, that there's something more than just simple animalistic interactions between us, there isn't anything more and no literary bullshit descriptions or contraptions will change that. Women are incapable of selfless social interaction or affection especially with men, with women it's all incentive only, nothing more than a giant stick with a carrot dangling off of it on a string. The faster you gentlemen learn that lesson the better off you will be. Female sexuality might as well be called incentivization, that's all it is and that's all it will ever be, don't be fooled otherwise.
 
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Idlevillagercel

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The words love and romance is just meaningless words, it's just a clever human trick to deceive ourselves that we're something other than animals, that there's something more than just simple animalistic interactions between us, there isn't anything more and no literary bullshit descriptions will change that. Women are incapable of selfless social interaction or affection especially with men, with women it's all incentive only, nothing more than a giant stick with a carrot dangling off of it on a string. The faster you gentlemen learn that lesson the better off you will be.
Well, women are capable of affection when it comes to chad, but they are indeed incapable of loving subhumans, they will fake it in exchange for money if you manage to betabuxx. Also, "love" is not necessary selfless since you expect your love to be reciprocated by your partner. But it's true that love doesn't exist for ugly people, the analogy of the carrot is pretty accurate.
 
MarquisDeSade

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Well, women are capable of affection when it comes to chad, but they are indeed incapable of loving subhumans, they will fake it in exchange for money if you manage to betabuxx. Also, "love" is not necessary selfless since you expect your love to be reciprocated by your partner. But it's true that love doesn't exist for ugly people, the analogy of the carrot is pretty accurate.
Physical appearance is just another form of incentivization beyond the monetary socio-economic one, she'll never 'love' you as being just yourself, you have to become something other or more than just your plain self for her to be sexually incentivized to you.

It's all nothing more than a dog and pony show eternally wagging the dog, a one trick pony.
 
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Idlevillagercel

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Physical appearance is just another form of incentivization beyond the monetary socio-economic one, she'll never 'love' you as being just yourself, you have to become something other or more than just your plain self for her to be sexually incentivized to you.

It's all nothing more than a dog and pony show eternally wagging the dog, a one trick pony.
But you agree that if a man is attractive he can be desired by a woman without having to fake his own personality right? I mean, I agree that we're just animals and there's nothing special about love, but if a man gets his needs satisfied then he won't suffer as much as we inklers do. That's was my original point.
 
MarquisDeSade

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But you agree that if a man is attractive he can be desired by a woman without having to fake his own personality right? I mean, I agree that we're just animals and there's nothing special about love, but if a man gets his needs satisfied then he won't suffer as much as we inklers do. That's was my original point.
Personality is nothing to a woman and don't be fooled when one says that it really matters, it really doesn't.

The three gods of the female uterus is looks [appearances], socioeconomic status [money], and power. [social affluence within community.]

These are the only things females care about and nothing else no matter what bullshit tangent or diatribe they go into saying otherwise. [That is the female trick of psychological deception at work or play in order to get you to relax your male defenses overtime.] Always remember this, while men are physical and sexual predators in the pecking order of nature women are master psychological predators, never forget this, it could save your life someday.
 
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Idlevillagercel

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Personality is nothing to a woman and don't be fooled when one says that it really matters, it really doesn't.

The three gods of the female uterus is looks [appearances], socioeconomic status [money], and power. [social affluence within community.]

These are the only things females care about and nothing else no matter what bullshit tangent or diatribe they go into saying otherwise. [That is the female trick of psychological deception at work or play in order to get you to relax your male defenses.] Always remember this, while men are physical and sexual predators in the pecking order of nature women are psychological predators, never forget this, it could save your life someday.
High IQ and based.

But what about darktriad personalities? It seems to increase a man's sexual value if he's attractive, even some normies become more attractive to women when they act like psychopaths. Tho tbh it's hard to tell if it is the dark traits of the status you gain by being an asshole (gangsters for example)
 
MarquisDeSade

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High IQ and based.

But what about darktriad personalities? It seems to increase a man's sexual value if he's attractive, even some normies become more attractive to women when they act like psychopaths. Tho tbh it's hard to tell if it is the dark traits of the status you gain by being an asshole (gangsters for example)
The woman's mind is based upon pure materialism, narcissism, vanity, and self interests only, women are apathetic creatures which is why they don't care about the bottom 80% of the male population, they're all about maximizing socially their own upward sexual mobility of the top 20% of men only, for the rest of men that don't fall into that range you're nothing more than a servile social caste of house niggers where you're deemed not 'real' men. So understanding that, yes, they're attracted to male psychopaths but more importantly to male psychopaths with power, position, or authority inside society.

This is the crux of all female sexual hypergamy.
 
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Idlevillagercel

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The woman's mind is based upon pure materialism, narcissism, vanity, and self interests only, women are apathetic creatures which is why they don't care about the bottom 80% of the male population, they're all about maximizing socially their own upward sexual mobility of the top 20% of men only, for the rest of men that don't fall into that range you're nothing more than a servile social caste of house niggers where you're deemed not 'real' men. So understanding that, yes, they're attracted to male psychopaths but more importantly to male psychopaths with power, position, or authority inside society.

This is the crux of all female sexual hypergamy.
:yes:
 
FlamingCel

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In this post, I'll explain what I mean by "love", "romance", "affection", "validation", I'll explain why I think we naturally crave those things, and I'll try to refute some of the counter-arguments I've seen here.

Love (sexual): A strong feeling of sexual attraction towards a particular female that makes us want to court her, fuck her, make sure other males don't fuck her, protect her, care for her, etc (pair bond). The feeling of love for a female can be reciprocated genuinely if you're attractive. If you're ugly then you can only hope for fake love at best (betabuxx).

Romance: The process of courtship and pair-bonding that occurs when a male is trying to reproduce with a female and guarantee the future of his offspring. It doesn't last long, and the way it is carried out differs from culture to culture.

Affection (with your sexual partner): Basically the same thing as love. It is expressed physically, verbally, and with actions. Kissing, caressing, cuddling, spooning, hugging, sweet taking (simping nowadays) are some examples of affection.

Validation (from a sexual partner): The feeling of reward you get when she reciprocates your love/sexual advances. If you make attempts to fuck her and she responds positively (she fucks you) then your feelings are being validated. If you try to pair bond with her and she responds positively (she becomes your GF) then your feelings are being validated. Attractive men get true validation from foids.

This is what I mean when I use these words. If you have different definitions in your mind then that's not what I'm talking about (don't argue semantics)

Now I'll explain why I believe we are naturally programmed to seek love, romance, affection, and validation.

Natural Selection.


I think it's pretty logical to come to the conclusion that love developed in human beings as an evolutionary tool that increases our chances of reproduction and the survival of our offspring (and even our own survival).

When men fall in love, they want to spend a lot of time with their partner, they do all they can to gain their partner's approval, they feel a strong desire to protect their partner (white knighting), they get jealous when their partner shows interest in other men, and so on and so forth. It's not hard to see that the purpose of all this is to reproduce and make sure your offspring has as many chances at surviving as possible. Men have always competed against each other for pussy and the ones who were able to experience all these feelings had a clear advantage and were more likely to reproduce. We inherited the desire for love because love was an effective way to breed. On top of that, you also can't deny the many health benefits of love which are scientifically proven:




So love not only gives us a strong desire to pass on our genes and take care of our offspring but it also gives us a strong motivation to survive ourselves. It is directly related to our one and only purpose in life.

Now I'll try to refute some of the counter arguments I've seen here:

"The concept of love did not exist until relatively recently. The sole purpose of relationships and marriage is paternity confidence."

Marriage as a contract was invented relatively recently, that's true. But relationships were always a thing. I'm not saying it was common for people in the stone age to have monogamous relationships for life, I'm saying that pair bonding was a thing and it would probably last for a short time (from the first stages of courtship until after the foid gave birth and probably even longer than that). The reason why I think this is that the desire to be in a relationship is present in people from all parts of the world nowadays and I assume we inherited that from our prehistoric ancestors.

"Men nowadays want love because they've been brainwashed by our feminist societies"

Feminist brainwashing is definitely a thing. Society wants you to worship foids and give them your balls on a silver plate. They've distorted the concept of love and adjusted it to their own antimale agenda. However, that doesn't mean that our desire for love is unnatural. You can see men across all the different societies around the world seeking relationships and desiring love. There's a reason all of us share more or less the same nature in that regard and it's not because of brainwashing.

"Men in ancient times didn't need relationships cuz they would just raid other tribes and rape their women"

The fact that men would rape women from other tribes in the stone age doesn't disprove the existence of relationships during that time just as the fact that the Vikings raided and stole from their neighbors doesn't disprove that they engaged in agriculture and produced their own shit. When prehistoric men weren't raiding other tribes they were busy surviving and trying to reproduce with their own women, and no matter how far back you go in time, intrasexual competition was always a thing, and I'm pretty sure that during 300.000 years of human prehistory love was important when it came to competing against other males (just like I explained above).

"All you need from foids you can get it from hookers"

You can't get affectionate with a hooker. You pay a prostitute to bust a nut and that's it. There are some special prostitutes that will be affectionate with you and pretend to be your partner but unless you're rich you can forget about that shit.

"Nobody cared about foids opinions back in the day"

True, but that doesn't mean men saw their women as breeding machines and nothing more than that. If you think the average joe back in the day didn't give a single fuck about his woman and had no feelings for her whatsoever then you're clearly coping hard.

"You care about foids validation therefore you're a cuck"

Trust me, I don't value women's opinions at all. I couldn't care less what they think of me if they're not fucking me. But that's how I am now because of years of inceldom, my views, and my hatred. But I can tell you this, when I was in my redpilled phase and I used to approach foids I never enjoyed the feeling of getting rejected by them. Anyone here who has experienced rejection can tell you it fucking sucks. And anyone who has been led on by a foid can also tell you that it feels amazing when you think you have a chance with her. We are naturally wired to care about foids validation and you can't deny that.

"If love evolved just as a means to an end then what's important is the end. Just fuck a hooker theory"

Friendship and camaraderie also evolved as a means to an end (the end being survival). We want to be friends with people because back in the day, our ancestors' survival depended on those types of relationships. Nowadays, you don't necessarily need to have a social life to survive. A lot of us are able to survive without having friends yet we still want friendship, we feel loneliness, we want to have a sense of belonging, and we want to socialize (even tho we don't need it to survive). All those things are necessary to be happy just as experiencing love is also a fundamental need for a healthy mind. Those of us who don't experience all that shit like we're supposed to end up fucked up in the head. You can't compare fucking a used up junkie hooker to pair bonding with the mother of your child. Achieving reproduction by "other means" does not eliminate our desire for love cuz that shit is in our DNA.




Anyway, I just made this post in response to a particular user who thinks I'm trolling him. I'm not interested in arguing half the forum so don't give me shit if I don't reply to your counterarguments. And btw, I fucking hate women and I will never fall in love ever again.
High-IQ post. Wanting love doesn't mean you have an delusionally rosy worldview.
 
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Women pick the winners and losers. As soon as you see that, you see how fruitless this dating bullshit is.
 
dirtykombatcel

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Great post, really explains well the mentality of incels who don't want to escortmaxx and the psychology of love in general.
 
Mainländer

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Argument between foidologist and ldarvillagercel about whether a woman's validation is important. foidologist says no and that's something he considers woman worshiping. ldarvillagercel disagrees and says a woman's validation is necessary even though that seems cucked at first because wanting love and validation from women is natural and existed even in more patriarchal societies.
It's only "cucked" because we ARE in cucked societies as a whole. If women were in their proper place, things would work out right.

In the current system, there's no winning move. Even statusmaxxed Chads gets cucked/frivorceraped. Idris Elba, Brendan Frazer, Mike Tyson, Brad Pitt.

The "best" move you can do concerning women (note: I don't endorse it at all, just stating a fact) is atrocitymaxxing. Psychopathmaxxing. But then you're, even if you don't believe in afterlife consequences, ruining and risking your life for pussy. So I still consider that there are no winning moves.
 
Idlevillagercel

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It's only "cucked" because we ARE in cucked societies as a whole. If women were in their proper place, things would work out right.

In the current system, there's no winning move. Even statusmaxxed Chads gets cucked/frivorceraped. Idris Elba, Brendan Frazer, Mike Tyson, Brad Pitt.

The "best" move you can do concerning women (note: I don't endorse it at all, just stating a fact) is atrocitymaxxing. Psychopathmaxxing. But then you're, even if you don't believe in afterlife consequences, ruining and risking your life for pussy. So I still consider that there are no winning moves.
Painfully true.