Everything is predetermined

[Liptusg]

Eventually?

Some LDAR retard posts this at least once a month, because they need to rationalize doing nothing. It's a coping mechanism. They need to justify their decision to accept perpetual failure to themselves.

You coped out of slowly unravelling your own worldview while being questioned by shouting 'troll' and bailing out.

That doesn't prove consciousness is matter though. What is proves, is that, consciousness in humans is dependent on having a functioning body and brain, made of matter, but that doesn't prove the consciousness, is matter itself.

you keep strawmanning me as if I am smarter than stephen hawking, when i said nothing of the sort. the fact that you rely on using strawmans shows you need intellectual dishonesty to argue your 'points'.

There is no force in physics, chemistry and biology to 'make something dependent' on a chunk of matter without being composed of matter, which I guess is instead composed of whatever garbage fantasy magic energy is blocking out your cognition at the moment. You share the mentality of religious fruitcakes in every single way, since you are now arguing for something identical to a 'soul', which is just a different word religious nutjobs use instead of your 'agency' or 'will'.

An intangible force that is made out of nothing, exists only inside humans but nowhere else in the universe because human atoms are special, can't be proven ( Yet you will defend its existence with your life ), can't be seen, can't be measured, can't be defined in terms of movement or size or weight or any other empirical factor, and just so happens to be 'dependent' on brain matter, being destroyed as soon as brain matter is destroyed, yet infantile cultists like you won't ponder the conclusion that your imaginary voodoo force is simply not real while brain matter is.

Please go back to school and study biology and physics.

 

[Deleted member 39864]

What do you think separates the consciousness of others outside of matter?

There is no force in physics, chemistry and biology to 'make something dependent' on a chunk of matter without being composed of matter, which I guess is instead composed of whatever garbage fantasy magic energy is blocking out your cognition at the moment. You share the mentality of religious fruitcakes in every single way, since you are now arguing for something identical to a 'soul', which is just a different word religious nutjobs use instead of your 'agency' or 'will'.

An intangible force that is made out of nothing, exists only inside humans but nowhere else in the universe because human atoms are special, can't be proven ( Yet you will defend its existence with your life ), can't be seen, can't be measured, can't be defined in terms of movement or size or weight or any other empirical factor, and just so happens to be 'dependent' on brain matter, being destroyed as soon as brain matter is destroyed, yet infantile dumb fucks like you won't ponder the conclusion that your imaginary voodoo force isn't real while brain matter is.

Please go back to school and study biology and physics.

Consciousness exists in animals as well. So this argument it is special to humans is flawed. Also, you need to prove that consciousness is indeed matter, your argument boils down to

"it must be made out of matter, because the only other explanation comes down to something that reminds me of religion, and I can't accept anything remotely like that. So I'll just use process of elimination to eliminate the idea I don't like".

You haven't PROVEN consciousness is matter.

 

[Deleted member 39864]

Also:

Your angry person will resort to punching if his current neurochemical state is adrenaline-pumped enough and if his genetic psychological profile is sufficiently aggressive to select the 'Fight' response from the human 'Fight or Flight' evolutionary instinct in that specific scenario, based on the level of external input applied to it. Same way a dog "decides" whether to bark or to bite. It's not because of some magic word that you can't even define properly, it's because of the inner workings of their brain which are impacted by previous factors like genetics and experience.

Anyway to prove that claim? I call bullshit. You are trying to paint humans as robots, who can't control themselves when they are fuming to a certain degree. You also don't account for the situation one is in, and other factors they may consider, such as laws, social consequences, their perception of morality. The burden of proof is on you here to prove this is deterministic.

You never were able to prove this claim you made.

 

[Liptusg]

Consciousness exists in animals as well. So this argument it is special to humans is flawed. Also, you need to prove that consciousness is indeed matter, your argument boils down to

"it must be made out of matter, because the only other explanation comes down to something that reminds me of religion, and I can't accept anything remotely like that. So I'll just use process of elimination to eliminate the idea I don't like".

You haven't PROVEN consciousness is matter.

I wasn't the one arguing that it's special to humans, I am merely portraying the beliefs of the cognitively stunted 'free will' devotees. Since you claim that consciousness is made out of nothing ( Has no matter ) and that the magic process of 'choosing' takes place through the power of that magical framework, In that case, do you think animals make decisions? Do they have 'le free will'? Are there animals which don't? I love hearing each cultist's arbitrary line concerning their garbled fantasies.

>You haven't PROVEN consciousness is matter.

Correct, I haven't proven it. Scientists did, for about a century of research or so, which is why I keep telling you to open a neurology book. MRI studies, EEG's and autopsies have shown which parts of the brain and which neurochemicals are responsible for optical perception, hearing, spatial recognition, touch sensors, smelling and even dreaming, basically every single neural mechanisms that makes you conscious of your own body and your surroundings. And when a human's brain is damaged in those areas, they lose them, and if all of them are damaged, or the intake of the matter that preserves their brain is ( AKA oxygenated blood ), then humans lose consciousness.

Go take a course on neurology and you'll be less ignorant about which things have already been scientifically proven and which things haven't been.

 

[Deleted member 39864]

I wasn't the one arguing that it's special to humans, I am merely portraying the beliefs of the cognitive stunted. Since you claim that consciousness is made out of nothing ( Has no matter ) and that the magic process of 'choosing' takes place through the power of that magical source. In that case, do you think animals make decisions? Do they have 'le free will'? Are there animals which don't? I love hearing each cultist's arbitrary line concerning their magical fantasies.

you are using another strawman, by claiming I am referring to something magic. Why can't you argue without using strawmans?

>You haven't PROVEN consciousness is matter.

Correct, I haven't proven it. Scientists did, for about a 100 years ago, which is why I keep telling you to open a neurology book. MRI studies, EEG's and autopsies have shown which parts of the brain and which neurochemicals are responsible for optical perception, hearing, spatial recognition, touch sensors, smelling and even dreaming, basically every single neural mechanisms that makes you conscious of your own body and your surroundings. And when a human's brain is damaged in those areas, they lose them, and if all of them are damaged, or are the matter that preserves their cells is ( AKA oxygenated blood ), then humans lose consciousness.

GO.TO.BIOLOGY.CLASS.

That's not proof that consciousness is matter, that is only proof consciousness interacts with the body.

 

[Liptusg]

you are using another strawman, by claiming I am referring to something magic. Why can't you argue without using strawmans?

That's not proof that consciousness is matter, that is only proof consciousness interacts with the body.

Your kidneys are actually powered by Chakras from the Aether that home in on waste products in your body and remove it. Examining someone's body and observing that waste products arrive at the kidneys before being filtered, and that removal of the kidneys results in failure to do so, only tell us that that the Aether interacts with the body in mysterious ways of non-matter interacting with matter that we can't understand, but are true because I believe in them.

 

[Deleted member 39864]

Your kidneys are actually powered by Chakras from the Aether that home in on waste products in your body and remove it. Examining someone's body and observing that waste products arrive at the kidneys before being filtered, and that removal of the kidneys results in failure to do so, only tell us that that the Aether interacts with the body in mysterious ways of non-matter interacting with matter that we can't understand, but are true because I believe in them.

Lack of an argument, I see. Good to see you resort to such childish tactics because you can't prove shit, and any 'proof' you claim scientists discovered, isn't actually proof either.

 

[Liptusg]

Lack of an argument, I see. Good to see you resort to such childish tactics because you can't prove shit, and any 'proof' you claim scientists discovered, isn't actually proof either.

Yes, scientists were not able to prove that what's *really* keeping someone alive as opposed to dead is their brain rather than their soul. The soul is just 'tethered' to the brain matter, while not being composed of matter itself, and is whisked away to Heaven as soon as someone's brain is splattered because God programmed the rules that way for fun.

You got me and won the debate. Nothing discovered by science can invalidate your infallible position of the force known as 'free will' which is not made out of matter but out of something else you can't describe.

 

[Deleted member 39864]

Yes, scientists were not able to prove that what's *really* keeping someone alive as opposed to dead is their brain rather than their soul. The soul is just 'tethered' to the brain matter, while not being composed of matter itself, and is whisked away to Heaven as soon as someone's brain is splattered because God programmed the rules that way for fun.

You got me and won the debate. Nothing discovered by science can invalidate your infallible position of the force known as 'free will' which is not made out of matter but out of something else you can't describe.

I never said the brain wasn't keeping someone alive. I just said that consciousness isn't matter.

All you do is keep using strawman.

 

[Liptusg]

I never said the brain wasn't keeping someone alive. I just said that consciousness isn't matter.

All you do is keep using strawman.

Analogies are not strawmen, you're just dense.

 

[Nihilistic Lowlife]

Your genetic does 80% of the job

 

[Deleted member 39864]

Analogies are not strawmen, you're just dense.

Nah, they are strawmen. You can't explain why I'm wrong so you use poor analogies in order to make my position look ridiculous. That's the essence of what a strawman is, giving the illusion of defeating someone's argument by arguing against something they didn't say, but sounds close to what they said.

 

[nystagmuscel]

My life is proof that free will doesn’t exist

 

[IncelKing]

It absolutely is empirically demonstrated, that was the whole point of sarcastically telling you to put a bullet inside your brain, which would actually count as an empirical experiment, to witness firsthand what every neurologist already knows - Matter is affected by other matter, if your consciousness was not formed by matter, then a chunk of metal would have absolutely no effect on it. Why do I have to teach the basic laws of physics to someone?

>"I don't care who made that comparison first, it's a shitty comparison"

You understand the mechanics of the universe and particles better than Stephen Hawking does which is why you wouldn't repeat his shitty comparisons. Got it.

>"Ability to do something with your mind cognitively using intelligence."

And what is the source of intelligence 'in the mind'?



You did say all of it. You told someone else, other than yourself ( And numerous other people besides ) that they "Chose" to do X with their lives instead of "Y". You're telling me, or a general reader, that we could 'choose' the destiny of trying to succeed or 'choose' to do nothing and fail. Yet since you have no idea how and why 'choices' happen in somebody else's brain, you aren't qualified to speak as to whether they are happening at all.

>"But it seems like you aren't taking this seriously"

I am taking your words as seriously as possible. Given that your beloved one which shapes your opposition to me, 'choosing', is detached from reality and can't be physically or mathematically characterized, it gets as much seriousness as it deserves.

>It's simple really. I like eating ice cream, I like fucking prostitutes, I like the things I like and I can't do them if I'm dead. So I opted for the path in

I also find it particularly amusing that you keep undermining your own superstitions with each new explanation that you give, which is the purpose of this exercise, since evnetually perhaps your brain will snap out of it's dogmatic loop and you'll manage to understand that that you can't help but provide Deterministic logic for your actions.

Your explanation is null - you told me that you had a 'choice' between wealthmaxxing and killing yourself. Was it possible for you to "choose" to kill yourself DESPITE liking icecream and fucking prostitutes? If it WAS possible, in spite of all the reasons you listed, then you'll need to come up with a different reason as to WHY one 'choice' prevailed over the other. And if it was *not possible*, then there was no 'choice'. Only one outcome stemming from your love of hookers and icecream, which are pre-existing causes.

[Hard To Swallow Edition] The final blackpill: fatalism

Human beings like to think of themselves as being the creators of their own destiny, but are we really in control of the way our lives play out or is everything predetermined and happening due to factors out of our control? Think about your own existence, the fact that you were brought into...

incels.is

 

[Mecoja]

Well, that's a very religious absolutist view on life. The truth is the future doesn't exist, so it's not predetermined. For something to be determined, it has to exist. The future does not exist. You do choose what to do. There's no such thing as a superior force that determines your actions.

Its not set in stone but with your limitations you have limited options and on it depends will you succeed or fail in anything you try. Lets take an pro football player for example, his physical superiority made him "choose" sport because its the logical path for him, if he trained another sport he still would be successful in it. If he didn't do sports his life would be much worse, so his genetics pushed him in that direction.

 

[HateCurry]

Successful people, even incels some of them who are hardworking and stuff they look down on this shit. I believe every single bit of this statement.

The thing with me, I used to get beaten up as a child. When you're beaten up everyday I always kept making sure I was fit to maintain my health and know I can fight back tomorrow, I fought with 3 people, one against three... I know, bigger than me too.

So I fought three people everyday and life was a struggle but I knew my suffering had meaning in it, I don't mean to say it's meaningful suffering, I'm just saying that the suffering was useful the next day or next couple of days right. So I did pushups rigorously etc. I knew it would come in handy.

Now, I rot all day, no motivation, nothing. I don't get beaten up so that sense of scarcity is not with me anymore. I also was neglected by starving the higher authorities already know this so I'm guessing this won't surprise you guys, if you're watching, don't worry, I'm all good, I don't get abused a single bit now, I'm all good, that was also in another country, don't ring my doorbell. So anyways, I was starving and I didn't have a choice, what I would ask my abusers for food so they beat me again? That's exactly what happened when I tried to steal food, they wouldn't let me eat.

I didn't lay down. I gathered all food that was in high amounts because if it was low amount they would've caught me I would very careful tiptoe and get them when they weren't looking and I would store them in my drawer in my room where I rot.

There was one day I was left starving, I went to play soccer, with one packet of cheese, had nothing else that day. This stuff makes me sad when I think about it, those of you bad mouthing this guy you probably never had someone tell you to shut up or they'll beat you up and call you ugly, you don't know how it is. That's how my brother is.

I didn't want to mention any of this but you fuckheads who think everybody has a choice. You don't know shit about life, you didn't reach the point when you think you know nothing compared to your older self, you are nothing and that older self of mine casts a huge shadow before me, someone I could never go reach, let alone pass or go through it.

 

[Sennacherib]

Your entire life was predetermined from the moment you were conceived

No shit Sherlock

 

[starcrapoo]

Does the present affect the past?
[UWSL]Surprisingly, yes. At the level of quantum particles (we are talking individual photons, elementary particles or individual atoms), there is something called Wheeler's delayed-choice experiments that show that actions in the present can influence the past.[/UWSL]

[UWSL]
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6HLjpj4Nt4
[/UWSL]

 

[Liptusg]

Does the present affect the past?
[UWSL]Surprisingly, yes. At the level of quantum particles (we are talking individual photons, elementary particles or individual atoms), there is something called Wheeler's delayed-choice experiments that show that actions in the present can influence the past.[/UWSL]

[UWSL][/UWSL]
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6HLjpj4Nt4

Even though I'm not a quantum physicist, and quantum physicists themselves would tell you that quantum mechanics have nothing nothing to do with the macrocosm, which is why we have 'Adequate Determinism', there are three things that need to be mentioned:

1. "The past" does not exist. 'The Past is a memory of the universe in a given state which could only 'replicated' by either re-arranging all of this universe's particles back to the way they were a certain period of time ago, or travelling to a 'parallel universe' ( Sci-fi territory ) whose particles are in that specific position. If you take a bowling ball, and roll it on a bowling lane, you're just sending atoms into movement. "The past" would be the position of the bowling ball at the start of the lane, and the "present" would be it's current position. These are just spacetime positions. If you want to 'go back to the past', you'd need to just pick up the bowing ball and put it back at the start.

2. You neglect to mention that Wheeler himself disagreed with the 'retroactive effect on the past' interpretation of his own experiment

3. You missed the part where this is just a 'thought experiment', various researchers derived various conclusions from it, and none of them can actually be scientifically *proven* mathematically or empirically. The only thing which is empirically proven is that photons seem to follow certain patterns that to the extent a limited human's senses can perceive them through limited devices, APPEAR to be moving in what they call both 'wave' and 'particle' forms at the same time.

However, quantum research is at its infancy and we are nowhere near a stage where anyone has an irrefutable scientific of exactly what they are observing or what is happening, which is why there are multiple conjectures regarding it. You probably don't know that one of the competing theories in Quantum mechanics is called 'Superdeterminism' and is adhered to by experts no less versed in the subject than Quantum Randomness is.

That 'something' called 'Wheeler's delayed-choice' is a conjecture, one that isn't even accepted by Wheeler himself. Unlike Newtonian Physics which are considered scientific facts.

 

[fukurou]

nothing ever changes

 

[Emba]

Eventually?

Some LDAR retard posts this at least once a month, because they need to rationalize doing nothing. It's a coping mechanism. They need to justify their decision to accept perpetual failure to themselves.

I knew you were going to complained

 

[Lux]

It is a intuitive, romantic idea that everything is predetermined and that there are other timelines where a other you lives perfectly. The idea of different time-lines is special. Trying to get a deeper understand of reality is not easy, searching for it is a constant, trying to reach a true understand of "what is" is itself, for the ones skeptical, a mere representation, projection of your will to reality what you asign. Overall, the idea of predetermined fatality is gloomy, dark and has a beauty to it, but ultimately crushing and harsh.