Based [Lifefuel for Currycels] India is ahead of the US in a few technological/scientific fields

[WorthlessSlavicShit]

I've already mentioned the report that found that China is ahead of the US in 37 out of 44 critical, emerging technological fields:

China leading US in technology race in all but a few fields

Over for Muricabros:feelsgah:. Zeihancels on suicide watch right now:feelskek:. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/mar/02/china-leading-us-in-technology-race-in-all-but-a-few-fields-thinktank-finds...

incels.is

Now, I looked once again at the report, and surprisingly, it's even worse than that headline implies. It isn't that it's only China that's ahead of the US with the latter being the eternal number two there. In some of those areas, it is India that is the number two to China, with the US behind India.

Jfl at this sciencemog holy shit. Depending on whether you count the nominal or PPP figures, the US' GDP per capita is either 30.48 or 9 times higher than India's and yet, it is already losing ground to the latter in those few critical and emerging technological fields when it comes to producing high-impact research in those fields.

Just look at this. In smart materials, advanced composite materials, high-specification machining processes and biofuels, India produces more high-impact research than the supposed most powerful country on Earth. It even has a pretty decent lead in a few of those, producing two to three times as much high-impact research in those fields as the US. In supercapacitors, it is still ahead of the US, but both of them are behind not just China, but South Korea as well, placing the world's "greatest democracy" at fourth place worldwide in that technology.

 

[Tarquinius]

How do they measure this stuff?

 

[WorthlessSlavicShit]

How do they measure this stuff?

They looked at the number of scientific papers published by each of those countries in each of those fields. Then, to control for quality, they looked specifically at the important, highly-cited, high-impact papers of the kind that would actually be mentioned in reputable scientific journals and so on instead of just being quietly forgotten as most scientific documents are, and from that, they found out how much each of the studied countries is contributing to meaningful research there and actually progressing in those fields.

 

[Tarquinius]

They looked at the number of scientific papers published by each of those countries in each of those fields. Then, to control for quality, they looked specifically at the important, highly-cited, high-impact papers of the kind that would actually be mentioned in reputable scientific journals and so on instead of just being quietly forgotten as most scientific documents are, and from that, they found out how much each of the studied countries is contributing to meaningful research there and actually progressing in those fields.

Where do the graphs even originate? I reverse image searched them and only found this korean website:

美 中 AI 등 기술 경쟁 치열, 중국의 우위 분야는?

[이코리아] 여러 첨단기술 분야에서 미국과 중국의 기술전쟁이 벌어지고 있다. 미국은 중국 첨단산업에 대한 규제를 더욱 강화하고 있다. 외신들은 현지시각 4일 바이든 행정부가 중국의 첨단기술 분야에 대해 미국 기업의 투자를 제한하는 행정명령의 준비 작업을 마무리했다고 보도했다. 반도체, 양자컴퓨터, AI 등의 기술이 주요 목표가 될 것으로 보인다. 이 행정명령이 발동되면 미국 기업들은 중국의 기술 기업에 투자할 수 없게 된다. 해당 행정명령은 바이든 행정부가 수개월에 거쳐 준비해왔으며, 이를 위해 G7의 협조를 구하고 있는 것으로 전

www.ekoreanews.co.kr

Not to mention that the U.S tries to keep any technological edge it has secret. World superpowers don't need to constantly boast about their technological superiority because it is quite evident.

 

[proudweeb]

china is way ahead and mogging cumskins

 

[WorthlessSlavicShit]

Where do the graphs even originate?

When you look at the report that’s the source of all of those claims, they have a document on their website where they have the top 5 countries for each of the tracked technology fields. I just screenshoted the ones with India ahead of the US.

Not to mention that the U.S tries to keep any technological edge it has secret. World superpowers don't need to constantly boast about their technological superiority because it is quite evident.

Fair point, but the same can be said for China as well, along with all the other countries. I’d say that, while we obviously can’t know what stuff they are keeping secret because their militaries are working with it and whatnot, we can see what their civilian institutions are doing, just as the people behind this report did, and when some country’s civilian scientific institutions absolutely blow away other countries in terms of research in a certain technological area, there’s a pretty good chance that that country’s military is also ahead of its rivals there.

china is way ahead and mogging cumskins

True, but that was what everyone focused on when that report came out. I wanted to highlight that it’s not just China and that it might be even worse for the US than people might’ve initially thought when just reading the headline.

 

[Khanivore]

It should have been us, we shouldn't have been helped that chinatown back in XX century

 

[Tarquinius]

It should have been us, we shouldn't have been helped that chinatown back in XX century

All of their tech is stolen from you lol.

we can see what their civilian institutions are doing,

Yeah, and the U.S absolutely mogs in this respect.

When you look at the report that’s the source of all of those claims, they have a document on their website where they have the top 5 countries for each of the tracked technology fields. I just screenshoted the ones with India ahead of the US.

ASPI has a vested interest in creating fears of a Chinese takeover. DARPA and NASA used to do this here in the U.S during the cold war. They would make reports of imminent Russian technological superiority which could only be stopped if the government gave them money. Same old tricks.

 

[Misogynist Curry 卐]

India will be superpower inshallah

 

[Khanivore]

All of their tech is stolen from you lol.

Yeah, and the U.S absolutely mogs in this respect.

ASPI has a vested interest in creating fears of a Chinese takeover. DARPA and NASA used to do this here in the U.S during the cold war. They would make reports of imminent Russian technological superiority which could only be stopped if the government gave them money. Same old tricks.

Ha, really? Awesome, actually, and it worked.. then who knows, if the numbers are valid

Tech isn't stolen, of course, but still.. they were living in mudhuts back in 20th century, and look at them now

 

[Tarquinius]

Ha, really? Awesome, actually, and it worked.. then who knows, if the numbers are valid

Tech isn't stolen, of course, but still.. they were living in mudhuts back in 20th century, and look at them now

Yeah, they just cannibalize whatever tech they can get their hands on.

China reportedly stole US military technology for its J-20 fighter jet

China ripped off United States military technology to build an advanced high-tech jet fighter, and experts warn that more must be done to protect American weapons information to keep Beijing fro…

nypost.com

They also had to steal engines from Russian jets since they couldn't figure out how to make their own.

 

[Khanivore]

Yeah, they just cannibalize whatever tech they can get their hands on.

China reportedly stole US military technology for its J-20 fighter jet

China ripped off United States military technology to build an advanced high-tech jet fighter, and experts warn that more must be done to protect American weapons information to keep Beijing fro…

nypost.com

They also had to steal engines from Russian jets since they couldn't figure out how to make their own.

At least something) Yeah, i heard about chinks reverse-engineering a jet back in the day, forgot about that.. You are american?

 

[Tarquinius]

At least something) Yeah, i heard about chinks reverse-engineering a jet back in the day, forgot about that.. You are american?

yes

 

[mlcurrycel]

India will be superpower inshallah

We shall rise again

 

[Khanivore]

yes

Thoughts about Ukr-Rus war?

 

[Tarquinius]

Thoughts about Ukr-Rus war?

It is what it is

 

[Khanivore]

It is what it is

Smart

 

[trying to ascend]

JAI HIND.

India will become a superpower and surpass the US

 

[WorthlessSlavicShit]

Yeah, and the U.S absolutely mogs in this respect.

Unfortunately, that doesn't really seem to be the case when looking at the volume and quality of research.

ASPI has a vested interest in creating fears of a Chinese takeover. DARPA and NASA used to do this here in the U.S during the cold war. They would make reports of imminent Russian technological superiority which could only be stopped if the government gave them money. Same old tricks.

The thing is, it's not just ASPI saying this. The other entities which track countries/institutions by their scientific output have also been saying the same thing. Scopus, which tracks the total number of scientific documents produced by a country/institution, has China producing more than the US since 2020, while nature index, which limits itself to 82 specific high-quality journals to only track high-quality research, also currently has China slightly ahead of the US.

The guys at ASPI just focused on a couple dozen critical areas and did a very detailed breakdown and analysis of those, but they aren't saying anything which others tracking scientific progress aren't.

It should have been us, we shouldn't have been helped that chinatown back in XX century

If only Slavbro, if only. I would've loved few things more than to see some Slavic country in the top scientific/technological rankings, but instead, we get the current state of affairs, brutally summed up in this article:

https://www.unz.com/akarlin/russias-technological-backwardness/

The only upside is that the richest Slavic countries (Czechia, Slovenia etc.) seem to be doing pretty well on a per capita basis, but with their populations, any possibility of any Slavic country even slightly matching the output of US or China seems to be a complete impossibility.

 

[Khanivore]

Unfortunately, that doesn't really seem to be the case when looking at the volume and quality of research.


The thing is, it's not just ASPI saying this. The other entities which track countries/institutions by their scientific output have also been saying the same thing. Scopus, which tracks the total number of scientific documents produced by a country/institution, has China producing more than the US since 2020, while nature index, which limits itself to 82 specific high-quality journals to only track high-quality research, also currently has China slightly ahead of the US.

The guys at ASPI just focused on a couple dozen critical areas and did a very detailed breakdown and analysis of those, but they aren't saying anything which others tracking scientific progress aren't.


If only Slavbro, if only. I would've loved few things more than to see some Slavic country in the top scientific/technological rankings, but instead, we get the current state of affairs, brutally summed up in this article:

https://www.unz.com/akarlin/russias-technological-backwardness/

The only upside is that the richest Slavic countries (Czechia, Slovenia etc.) seem to be doing pretty well on a per capita basis, but with their populations, any possibility of any Slavic country even slightly matching the output of US or China seems to be a complete impossibility.

What is ASPI, by the way?

 

[Ricordanza]

They looked at the number of scientific papers published by each of those countries in each of those fields. Then, to control for quality, they looked specifically at the important, highly-cited, high-impact papers of the kind that would actually be mentioned in reputable scientific journals and so on instead of just being quietly forgotten as most scientific documents are, and from that, they found out how much each of the studied countries is contributing to meaningful research there and actually progressing in those fields.

I can assure you that 99% of research papers published in india are nothing but garbage and are likely extremely derivative

 

[Khanivore]

Unfortunately, that doesn't really seem to be the case when looking at the volume and quality of research.


The thing is, it's not just ASPI saying this. The other entities which track countries/institutions by their scientific output have also been saying the same thing. Scopus, which tracks the total number of scientific documents produced by a country/institution, has China producing more than the US since 2020, while nature index, which limits itself to 82 specific high-quality journals to only track high-quality research, also currently has China slightly ahead of the US.

The guys at ASPI just focused on a couple dozen critical areas and did a very detailed breakdown and analysis of those, but they aren't saying anything which others tracking scientific progress aren't.


If only Slavbro, if only. I would've loved few things more than to see some Slavic country in the top scientific/technological rankings, but instead, we get the current state of affairs, brutally summed up in this article:

https://www.unz.com/akarlin/russias-technological-backwardness/

The only upside is that the richest Slavic countries (Czechia, Slovenia etc.) seem to be doing pretty well on a per capita basis, but with their populations, any possibility of any Slavic country even slightly matching the output of US or China seems to be a complete impossibility.

Did you find all this via google?

 

[Tarquinius]

What is ASPI, by the way?

The organization which made the chart.

Unfortunately, that doesn't really seem to be the case when looking at the volume and quality of research

We're looking at the concrete, tangible work of institutions through. Not just papers. In terms of product quality, for example, the U.S does much better.

References to a paper do not necessarily indicate actual advancement. These countries produce a ton of papers annually, so some are statistically guaranteed to get into these journals at some point. A per capita basis would be more accurate in my opinion.

That's not to say that our institutions here in the U.S are perfect, and indeed without any major rivals like the USSR they have lagged behind a bit. I just doubt these countries can fulfill that role.

 

[Khanivore]

The organization which made the chart.

Can you give me the link for it? Cant find it

 

[Tarquinius]

Can you give me the link for it? Cant find it

He has links here:

When you look at the report that’s the source of all of those claims, they have a document on their website where they have the top 5 countries for each of the tracked technology fields. I just screenshoted the ones with India ahead of the US.


Fair point, but the same can be said for China as well, along with all the other countries. I’d say that, while we obviously can’t know what stuff they are keeping secret because their militaries are working with it and whatnot, we can see what their civilian institutions are doing, just as the people behind this report did, and when some country’s civilian scientific institutions absolutely blow away other countries in terms of research in a certain technological area, there’s a pretty good chance that that country’s military is also ahead of its rivals there.


True, but that was what everyone focused on when that report came out. I wanted to highlight that it’s not just China and that it might be even worse for the US than people might’ve initially thought when just reading the headline.

 

[WorthlessSlavicShit]

I can assure you that 99% of research papers published in india are nothing but garbage and are likely extremely derivative

I don't doubt that and the authors of the ASPI report didn't either, which is why they looked specifically at the few quality research and compared it with the rest of the world.

Did you find all this via google?

Well, the ASPI report was covered by a lot of news sources when it came out, but the others I found pretty just by googling "countries by scientific output", through which I found the Wikipedia site summarizing the Scimago data.

We're looking at the concrete, tangible work of institutions through. Not just papers. In terms of product quality, for example, the U.S does much better.

Fair enough, though it should be noted that, while theoretical papers don't immediately transform into results on the ground, they do very much provide a basis for that.

Even when looking away from papers, though, you can clearly see that, while it's undoubtedly behind in several areas, China is definitely closing the gap with the US even when it comes to actually existing products used by actual customers. Their dominance in solar panel production, for example, came about because their products were both cheaper and higher quality than those of their competitors, while their leadership in 5G is already so massive they might as well have a monopoly on those technologies.

References to a paper do not necessarily indicate actual advancement. These countries produce a ton of papers annually, so some are statistically guaranteed to get into these journals at some point. A per capita basis would be more accurate in my opinion.

That's not to say that our institutions here in the U.S are perfect, and indeed without any major rivals like the USSR they have lagged behind a bit. I just doubt these countries can fulfill that role.

In per capita terms, China is still well behind the US, but I'm not quite sure whether that's a positive fact for the States, considering that those figures aren't static. If anything, it gives China a lot of room for growth.

The figures at Scimago I've already talked about illustrate this perfectly. As late as 2019, the US still produced a tiny bit more scientific papers than China, while as of 2021, they produced over 130,000 less (860,012 vs 726,552).

It's deleted now, but Wikipedia had this table which showed the growth of various countries from 2003 to 2016 in terms of scientific output, with China averaging 14% annual growth compared to the US' 2%.

Looking once again back at Scimago, from 2015 to 2021, the US went from publishing 693,179 papers yearly to publishing 726,552, which isn't even a 1% annual growth, while China went from 465,328 to 860,012 in that same time period, which is an annual growth rate higher than 10%, and there's very few signs that those rates will majorly change at least in the short term.

 

[Puppeter]

Crap