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Discussion Is the number of Incels and disenfranchised men growing? Do you think we can ever restructure society?

Didnt read but based off the title question. No. In OUR time society will never be fixed but only get worse. Many of us will die, rope, be killed, or sit and watch on in utter horror and misery. it’s only bleak. If you think otherwise why havent men stood up YET? NOW? Exactly. Because this shits been going on for far too long.
I hope you’re wrong but I sorta think you’re probably right unless the great masses of western men are united or something like that. We are probably ahead of the curve.

Men don’t openly rebel against the system because the consequences are total destruction. Either getting killed in the case of like a hypothetical WW3 or civil war or even if it’s just speaking out you will lose everything. Your job, your friends, your reputation. For the rest of your life you will be forced into homelessness or dead end jobs at Taco Bell. The current system has too much power so it seems. And speaking out would also be hard because the places everyone talks now (social media) are extremely controlled by those in power.

You would need a LOT of society’s men to recognize these issues and stop paying taxes/working or something like that. Not sure how it could actually be done sadly. Even if that happened they’d probably just immigrate people who will work, sort of like side stepping strikes by hiring new workers.
 
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Society will collapse if we don't legalize prostitution :feelsjuice:
I don’t get why it’s not legal in the US tbh. You could tax it and it works be safer since it would go though companies doing STD checks and such.
 
In short. No.
Long form it’s hard to say even with many disenfranchised men it doesn’t really seem to matter since the elites pushing the current system still have a firm grip, there is no alternate system being proposed or thought of at the moment. In other words the status quo will continue for the foreseeable future, but things can change quickly.
 
In short. No.
Long form it’s hard to say even with many disenfranchised men it doesn’t really seem to matter since the elites pushing the current system still have a firm grip, there is no alternate system being proposed or thought of at the moment. In other words the status quo will continue for the foreseeable future, but things can change quickly.
So we’re fucked, damn
 
So we’re fucked, damn
My point being that even with these many disenfranchised men, they are still paying into the current system, which means it will sustain for now. And there isn’t really an alternative yet(doesn’t mean it can’t happen, I just haven’t seen it yet anywhere). There is no muster of a large opposition force politically yet, not as far as I am aware of.

But what will happen when population decline really starts to show? I think that might be the true Achilles heel that breaks the system, however this is really far off to really predict what will happen. I don’t see an economical collapse large enough, or more importantly quick enough to enact change not in the current time.
 
nah none of that will happen realistically speaking.

America will either slowly fade into the night quietly or it will go out with a loud bang and bump back and stablize (and possibly even come out stronger).

the former is much more likely though.

One day things will get better but it might take a thousand years to two thousand years or more for people to forget about the west and its' degeneracy and hypocrisy.

the world will more or less revert back to how things were before america and the west took over after the industrial revolution. that is why I like to read about world history and politics before the 1800s or 1700s. Thats where the world is reverting back to as soon as the west collapses under its own bs.
 
IMO: the current system is, at its root, dependent on oil, which according to some evidence peaked 40 years ago. They are desperately trying alternatives to attain oil such as fracking but that involves much greater use of energy and resources. As oil resources are exhausted, obtaining more will require exponentially higher amounts of energy put in over time. Renewable energy is vastly less efficient and even if they weren't, we are decades behind where we should be on developing an infrastructure for it. Climbing prices of oil would soon mean basic things like food and electricity will be too expensive for the average person to afford. If the majority lose all of these things, I believe it will force a revolution. This is how I believe post industrial society will end. It will be painful and many will die, but I believe it will ultimately lead to a better society.
 
I truly believe that one day feminism will fall. Matriarchies are destined to fall because most women are only able to think short term and are not born leaders. But i doubt that i will experience the fall
 
If women exited the work force, men would have to work double to keep the economy in the same place. Even now sexhaver couples have to pool both their incomes just to survive. If the woman wasn't working they would suffer a lot. Trying to limit the labor pool to men will destroy the economy. It simply does not make sense to compare to the past when women weren't working and men worked 8 hours a day, the correct comparison is to the current situation in poor countries where both men and women work 12 hours a day to stay in poverty. If you think about it, only rich men have housewives. Though this is just for the present though.

Inflation means that companies are hiring workers to produce value. Deflation means that rich people are keeping their money in the bank to get compound interest or to simply avoid the financial loss that spending money on anything would incur. In other words, with inflation poor people watch the prices of things go up and in deflation they literally die of starvation, like in the great depression. That is a HUGE difference. Poor people literally die in the street during deflation. If the poor people are able to afford less over time from the combination of wages not increasing and cost of living increasing this is actually reflecting a much bigger and deeper problem in the economic health it is not a surface level issue. If you think about it if the economy was healthy then even if the wages stayed exactly the same, the cost of living would basically be constant or declining naturally from economic competition. The idea that inflation makes the rich richer because it causes the price of housing to go up is actually flawed because it's actually going up because people are buying houses through mortgages that they're going to foreclose and return to the bank so it actually makes them poorer.

No matter what the economic environment is, money always has value, because rich people are rewarded for deciding how to spend their money. The power to decide the allocation of capital is in the hands of rich people. They could just lose all their money too. When the stock market fell 50% rich people basically lost half this money.

I don't really mean to defend rich people though. What i am saying is that the actual problem that needs to be solved is how to increase economic productivity and efficiency. The reason the economy is inefficient is mostly due to regulations. Poor people should be able to do economic activities a lot more easily such as working multiple jobs as much as they want to , living in their vehicle instead being forced to live in a house, lending money to each other instead of having to use a bank etc. For example look at how many insane regulations this website has to follow. Imagine if this website was subject to way less regulations then poor people would be able to do way more economic activities at a much cheaper price.

u made some amazing points. Especially the regulations part.
 
Birth control has unironically caused more damage to society than maybe any other technology in history. Think about it, it’s enabled all of the rampant degeneracy and Chad harems consequence free all this time.
It also went into the water supply in the environment
 
we can restructure it based on the leadership of St. Elliot Rodger
 
the west has made it abundantly clear that they will never negotiate over women's rights, if the birth rate fall to rock bottom they will try and solve it by bringing in people from countries where (ironically) women have less rights, then they will go on to introduce those very nations to feminism thereby killing the birth rate there. the inherent dysfunction of male and female relationships can just be brushed off as a natural consequence of the free unregulated sexual market place, which will be defended under the guise of a society that offers free choice.
I didn't ask to be here man. I just wanna have fun and do things in peace not all this depression shit. So over
 
Thanks man. And yeah, sadly the degree of restructuring would be impossible with the current system seems like. Other than a war which destroys everything then the victors rebuild after with a new societal structure I’m not sure it’s even possible. If such a war occurred odds are we would all get killed so maybe there’s no winning.

Though perhaps if enough men start voting on these issues en masse and if enough men are able to drop out of the labor force (eg decline in tax revenue) perhaps those in power would feel more motivation to accommodate men I don’t know.

Really it’s the rich elites and who controls the media, education, and propaganda engines that needs to get the proper motivation. For example, if suddenly every news station and every social media platform changed their policy and started heavy indoctrination of women to become stay at home mothers to rebuild society it would probably work. What we’ve seen recently is the opposite where those institutions have been pushing extremely hard for women to take careers instead. Also if the issues facing men were actually taken as seriously as the issues facing women, etc.
Youre welcome,

Playing by the elite's rules and participating in their games (democracy) won't do much human capital and resources are valuable assets which need to be accumulated if things may go south however the Labour force rates are dwindling also the media is only good for a springboard (to receive more attention).

I agree it's unfortunate men aren't as supportive of each other as women seeing as we are all divided into sections.
 
ft_2022.08.31_sexratios_01.png


The ratio of male to female worldwide is in favor of females. There are 101 male for every 100 female. That means there are hundreds of million of men that will never find a women just because of the numbers.

I’m from Saudi Arabia so I’m more fucked than the Chinese.

The only hope for people that lives in rich countries is to import women from poor countries. They will be fucking over poorcels but it is what it is.
 
In short. No.
Long form it’s hard to say even with many disenfranchised men it doesn’t really seem to matter since the elites pushing the current system still have a firm grip, there is no alternate system being proposed or thought of at the moment. In other words the status quo will continue for the foreseeable future, but things can change quickly.
Lol they don't have firm grip
 
America will either slowly fade into the night quietly or it will go out with a loud bang and bump back and stablize (and possibly even come out stronger).

the former is much more likely though.
Lol no? How can you even think faggot feminist land will come out stronger is beyond me
 
Men aren't dropping out of the work force, it's just that nowadays it's harder to get a stable job.
I don’t know where the fuck you live at but where I live in the USA companies would get on their hands and knees to hire you and the smaller companies suffer because they can’t afford to increase the wages so they usually end up hiring only 1 to 5 employees MAX.
 
As the foids oppression goes up so will the amount of blackpillers
 
No matter how they attempt to prop up this society it will collapse.

The elites will not listen to mens complaints and will open the flood gates to immigrants.

Someone has to to do the blue collar jobs, right?

Here the catch, the immigrants children will be Americanized and the men most likely not have children.

Thus propelling this never ending cycle heading toward failure until the very last fucking slave (man).
 
The current iteration of elites at the top had a firm grip for the past 70~ years
Not sure what you consider a firm grip then.
The Last 70 Years. It's been brutally imploding in the last 10 years
 
The Last 70 Years. It's been brutally imploding in the last 10 years
It only really started to decline in the 2020s we have yet to see if it will continue far enough, even then it’s a slow decline that could last another 30 years or so. So for the foreseeable future yes, they still have a grip over things.
 
It only really started to decline in the 2020s we have yet to see if it will continue far enough, even then it’s a slow decline that could last another 30 years or so. So for the foreseeable future yes, they still have a grip over things.
Consensus started to fall increasingly in 2014-2015
 
I think the rise in virginity of men may be something bigger at play. I believe it may be mature trying to make us die out. We’ve become too sentient
 
Consensus started to fall increasingly in 2014-2015
2016, was probably the 'turning' point.
But even now they elites still have considerable power more so than people keep underestimating.
I would say they could still have a hand to play for at least 30 years, but we will see.
 
2016, was probably the 'turning' point.
But even now they elites still have considerable power more so than people keep underestimating.
I would say they could still have a hand to play for at least 30 years, but we will see.
Probs a reset will happen sooner
 
The thing is that a lot of disenfranchised men dont develop class consciousness. Incels dont have solidarity with MGTOWers and redpillers and MRAs etc etc because the media divides and demonizes us so thoroughly.

Based solutions, but theyll never be implemented unless a lot of simps and cucks get blackpilled
I don't understand the gripe some cels have with Mgtow and MRA's, Mgtows and MRA's are sympathetic to the cel cause, and many of them are cels themselves, they don't just focus on their sexual status and most of their attention is on marriage, divorce , relationships and all the trappings and demeaning ramifications. If you notice a cope, point out that you disagree with the opinion, no point bashing them.


Redpillers though, especially the thought leaders can be very scathing of the blackpill. Treat them the way they treat you.


The philosophies have much more in common than divergences.
 
I don’t know where the fuck you live at but where I live in the USA companies would get on their hands and knees to hire you and the smaller companies suffer because they can’t afford to increase the wages so they usually end up hiring only 1 to 5 employees MAX.
I live in the USA and companies being desperate for workers is only the case for dead end jobs that no one wants and that pay like shit. Also you can tell they’re not really that desperate since they’re completely unwilling to pay more.

Yeah, the local Taco Bell wants more workers and would hire me on the spot, but they pay nothing and the job sucks.

The actual “good” jobs that people want and that pay well are extremely hard to get. I have been throwing applications into the void for like a year straight. Companies also list “ghost” jobs where they really plan on hiring anyone but they leave it open just in case the greatest employee ever comes along and will accept garbage pay that sort of thing.

The absolutely nutty thing about western society is the big earners essentially do nothing while the people actually doing the real work have little to no forward mobility and earn pennies. The ideal is landing a job in product management somewhere high up the chain. “Knowing” someone is crucial but most of us don’t have connections. But yeah, my boss sits in meetings all day and legitimately does not do any actual work. The company’s old CEO did even less work. They sat in their fancy office playing on their mac and occasional cage an “inspiring” speech. They inherently the company from their father.

The system is basically rigged is what I’m saying. It’s why nobody cares anymore and everyone just does the bare minimum to pay their bills. The secret would be figuring out how to break into those upper positions. But again pretty sure it comes down to knowing somebody or being extremely extremely good at your work far beyond the norm otherwise and with credentials out the ass.
 
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As the foids oppression goes up so will the amount of blackpillers
I think if somehow we could get all of society’s men on board with reality we could start to see a change. The problem is so so many men are brainwashed by top down indoctrination and all of the shaming tactics when they even express any doubt it’s hard to break through that layer.
 
No matter how they attempt to prop up this society it will collapse.

The elites will not listen to mens complaints and will open the flood gates to immigrants.

Someone has to to do the blue collar jobs, right?

Here the catch, the immigrants children will be Americanized and the men most likely not have children.

Thus propelling this never ending cycle heading toward failure until the very last fucking slave (man).
It is so fucking insane to me that no one had the foresight to see what putting women in the workforce would do long term.

Yes, companies are happy for the time being since now they can pay less since the labor markets been doubled. Very good for them in that sense (normal people fuckin shouldn’t be happy about this though as I’ve said since same demand with more workers means less income per household unless both people work).

But the fact that educated career women have dramatically fewer kids and the fact the importing uneducated foreigners who don’t share your society’s values and who don’t respect rule of law in order to prop up your declining population is a disaster in the making.

Instead of all the top down propaganda telling women to be “empowered” and go get a career and a masters degree in sociology or some bullshit the propaganda should be aimed at getting them to start a family and have kids, you know, to save society long term.
 
No matter how they attempt to prop up this society it will collapse.

The elites will not listen to mens complaints and will open the flood gates to immigrants.

Someone has to to do the blue collar jobs, right?

Here the catch, the immigrants children will be Americanized and the men most likely not have children.

Thus propelling this never ending cycle heading toward failure until the very last fucking slave (man).
Yeah immigration can only be a temporary solution, you have to fix the underlying problems eventually. But we all know they won’t unless they’re forced to.
 
I think the rise in virginity of men may be something bigger at play. I believe it may be mature trying to make us die out. We’ve become too sentient
It is an interesting answer to the Fermi paradox. Maybe there was other life in the universe but once it gets sophisticated enough automation takes over or western style societies and the species stops breeding and thus dies out.
 
It is so fucking insane to me that no one had the foresight to see what putting women in the workforce would do long term.

Yes, companies are happy for the time being since now they can pay less since the labor markets been doubled. Very good for them in that sense (normal people fuckin shouldn’t be happy about this though as I’ve said since same demand with more workers means less income per household unless both people work).

But the fact that educated career women have dramatically fewer kids and the fact the importing uneducated foreigners who don’t share your society’s values and who don’t respect rule of law in order to prop up your declining population is a disaster in the making.

Instead of all the top down propaganda telling women to be “empowered” and go get a career and a masters degree in sociology or some bullshit the propaganda should be aimed at getting them to start a family and have kids, you know, to save society long term.
The reason they weren’t aware of what could occur in the future in my option is one or more of the following:
Blinded by greed and the potential to make more profit
Naively believed women were somehow equal to men
I would add in something about a conspiracy to lower the population of earth but it makes zero sense since Africas birthrates is booming.

It is an interesting answer to the Fermi paradox. Maybe there was other life in the universe but once it gets sophisticated enough automation takes over or western style societies and the species stops breeding and thus dies out.
The Fermi Paradox is very interesting and combining it with the Mouse Utopia Experiment it perhaps explains as to why there isn’t a highly advanced civilization of aliens in our near vicinity.

With how long the universe has been around would it be crazy to assume that a civilization would have found us thousands of years ago?

Perhaps life itself is a very rare thing, I don’t know.

Also funny enough if space is anything like earth would it be worth it to run into a species more advanced than us which would lead to us being below them in a food chain hierarchy?
 
No, we won't restructure shit, because we can't ever be united, and the foremost (though not the only) reason for that is all the JBW-copers gaslighting white trucels, and forcing us to hate all shitskins as a result. :feelsjuice:
 
No, we won't restructure shit, because we can't ever be united, and the foremost (though not the only) reason for that is all the JBW-copers gaslighting white trucels, and forcing us to hate all shitskins as a result. :feelsjuice:
This is the tragedy isn’t it. It seems like those in power are unbeatable. Especially because they have a strangle hold on public opinion through media control and also because boomers, women, and Chads won’t ever flip the system. Maybe someday things will get better but I seriously doubt I’ll be around for that.
 

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