It's Over Talent Beats Hard Work & Working Hard Itself is Genetically Driven [Study]

[cvh1991]

Link to Study here:

Genetic and environmental architecture of conscientiousness in adolescence - Scientific Reports

Using a genetically informative design (about 2000 twin pairs), we investigated the phenotypic and genetic and environmental architecture of a broad construct of conscientiousness (including conscientiousness per se, effortful control, self-control, and grit). These four different measures were...

www.nature.com

This was explained by Thinking-Ape in his video here:
View: https://youtu.be/v3YF5HuWuYU
Of course it’s not that hard work doesn’t matter at all in one’s success, but genetics matter vastly more than most people realize. In reality, hard work is no guarantee of success. Even if you “work smart”, the old adage of “It’s who you know” is a true one.

I’ve worked at different corporations in the US for about 15 years now and my observation’s been the higher up you go the less actual work you do while simultaneously earning more. Where you don’t want to be is on the bottom rung, those people are treated like garbage. Though I’m in a poor position where I work, I’ve confirmed this with a lot of people I’ve known who moved up into management and exec roles. Basically it’s exactly what it looks like here.

One of the things he talks about in the video is how talent motivates people to work harder as a feedback loop. Eg In a given physics class you have a spectrum of people where a few will get it naturally, a few will never get it no matter how much time and effort they throw at the wall, and most will fall somewhere in between those extremes. Those who get it naturally with relatively little effort are more inclined to stick with it than those who don’t.

The motivation loop applies in general to hard work as a concept in fact. People are motivated by the prospect of reward. When people erroneously claim that others are lazy or that “No one wants to work” these days, the reality is the reward for hard work has been ground to dust.

I’ve said this before in passing, but why would a man work an iota more than they need to in order to survive if they have no hope of:
1) Their own home
2) A loyal wife and his own family
3) A decent job that doesn’t make him want to blow his brains out

EDIT 4) I’m adding divorce law reform since no man with a rational head should want to be married given how devastating it is to lose your kids (virtually guaranteed), half or more of what you worked to build for your whole life, with alimony and child support on top (where often the mother doesn’t even use the child support on the child JFL).

Modern society is rotten to the core. People have forgotten what actually matters in life. Video games and porn will never make me happy, they are hollow copes that only make me feel worse in actuality. Yet they’re all I have to deal with this pitiful muck of a life. Escapism. And even that is being taken from us through the destruction of art via woke initiatives.

I don’t see how things can get better at this point without a massive societal backlash or perhaps the fall of society as we know it into very hard times before anything can be meaningfully rebuilt. The people making the top down decisions are out of touch to an extreme that’s hard to think possible and allowing women as educators who push their own self serving bias onto young men certainly hasn’t helped. Anyway, I’ve gotten off the point, but I hope eventually things get better. They’ve been getting progressively worse for years. Most people and men for that matter don’t even seem to notice or care Maybe we’re just ahead of the curve lads

 

[Friday I'm In Love]

LDAR is law

 

[Fifita]

Born into family with right connections and good genetics the world is u oyster

 

[ThisShitIsOva]

Born into family with right connections and good genetics the world is u oyster

 

[cvh1991]

LDAR is law

Yeah, if I could NEET I’d give up on work entirely. It’s just not worth the suffering in my estimation. That said some people are lucky and land either cushy jobs or jobs that are chill and easy enough that they don’t mind working so much.

 

[Incel TV]

Hard work is for niggers

 

[cvh1991]

Born into family with right connections and good genetics the world is u oyster

Pretty much, yup Without either of things unless you’re a true genius or something or very lucky you’re gonna have a hard time.

Now if you’re a woman who’s even remotely attractive and you’re willing to lower your standards you can probably always find a guy who will give you shelter and resources if you bang them every now and then.

 

[Initium]

I’ve thought about giving up and embracing homelessness/tent life. But I have skin conditions that flare up if I don’t shower/use special shampoos. So it’s over for me either way

 

[PurgatoryPass]

I can work hard or work smart. I don't have the capacity for both. Fuck this culture of expecting more and more for less and then taking the blame.

 

[Gymcelled]

I’ve said this before in passing, but why would a man work an iota more than they need to in order to survive if they have no hope of:
1) Their own home
2) A loyal wife and his own family
3) A decent job that doesn’t make him want to blow his brains out

Boomers call us lazy when we have none of the incentives they used to have.

 

[cvh1991]

Boomers call us lazy when we have none of the incentives they used to have.

Yup, that sums it up. Everyone who’s ever lived is “lazy” in the sense that people naturally seek to minimize their exertion and maximize their return on effort.

The thing that’s changed is all the incentives that existed before to motivate men are completely gone. Boomers act like it’s just the new generation that’s lazy and have no self awareness they grew up in what was probably the best time in history to have lived and worked.

 

[Gymcelled]

Yup, that sums it up. Everyone who’s ever lived is “lazy” in the sense that people naturally seek to minimize their exertion and maximize their return on effort.

The thing that’s changed is all the incentives that existed before to motivate men are completely gone. Boomers act like it’s just the new generation that’s lazy and have no self awareness they grew up in what was probably the best time in history to have lived and worked.

Boomers making minimum wage could buy properties, cars, go on vacations multiple times a year, raise a family and retire.

STEM retards like me workceling cant even afford a quarter of that.

 

[Antorian]

This reminds me of a high IQ comment I saw once in youtube, so much that I even saved it.

"Reminds me of my first job in Mining. I was new and working REALLY hard to prove myself. One day I noticed an old timer watching me work really hard on a shit task the boss had put me on. The old timer approached me with a big grin and asked " Do you know what working really hard like that will get you?" I puffed out my chest a little as I was waiting to hear him say " A promotion. " Instead, he answered " A lot more really hard work." I just blinked in confusion as he sauntered off and went back to working really hard. 40 years later, I so miss that old timer and the wisdom he tried to bestow on me. Wish I would have been smart enough to listen and apply his wisdom back then..."

 

[faded]

Link to Study here:

Genetic and environmental architecture of conscientiousness in adolescence - Scientific Reports

Using a genetically informative design (about 2000 twin pairs), we investigated the phenotypic and genetic and environmental architecture of a broad construct of conscientiousness (including conscientiousness per se, effortful control, self-control, and grit). These four different measures were...

www.nature.com

This was explained by Thinking-Ape in his video here:
View: https://youtu.be/v3YF5HuWuYU
Of course it’s not that hard work doesn’t matter at all in one’s success, but genetics matter vastly more than most people realize. In reality, hard work is no guarantee of success. Even if you “work smart”, the old adage of “It’s who you know” is a true one.

I’ve worked at different corporations in the US for about 15 years now and my observation’s been the higher up you go the less actual work you do while simultaneously earning more. Where you don’t want to be is on the bottom rung, those people are treated like garbage. Though I’m in a poor position where I work, I’ve confirmed this with a lot of people I’ve known who moved up into management and exec roles. Basically it’s exactly what it looks like here.

One of the things he talks about in the video is how talent motivates people to work harder as a feedback loop. Eg In a given physics class you have a spectrum of people where a few will get it naturally, a few will never get it no matter how much time and effort they throw at the wall, and most will fall somewhere in between those extremes. Those who get it naturally with relatively little effort are more inclined to stick with it than those who don’t.

The motivation loop applies in general to hard work as a concept in fact. People are motivated by the prospect of reward. When people erroneously claim that others are lazy or that “No one wants to work” these days, the reality is the reward for hard work has been ground to dust.

I’ve said this before in passing, but why would a man work an iota more than they need to in order to survive if they have no hope of:
1) Their own home
2) A loyal wife and his own family
3) A decent job that doesn’t make him want to blow his brains out

EDIT 4) I’m adding divorce law reform since no man with a rational head should want to be married given how devastating it is to lose your kids (virtually guaranteed), half or more of what you worked to build for your whole life, with alimony and child support on top (where often the mother doesn’t even use the child support on the child JFL).

Modern society is rotten to the core. People have forgotten what actually matters in life. Video games and porn will never make me happy, they are hollow copes that only make me feel worse in actuality. Yet they’re all I have to deal with this pitiful muck of a life. Escapism. And even that is being taken from us through the destruction of art via woke initiatives.

I don’t see how things can get better at this point without a massive societal backlash or perhaps the fall of society as we know it into very hard times before anything can be meaningfully rebuilt. The people making the top down decisions are out of touch to an extreme that’s hard to think possible and allowing women as educators who push their own self serving bias onto young men certainly hasn’t helped. Anyway, I’ve gotten off the point, but I hope eventually things get better. They’ve been getting progressively worse for years. Most people and men for that matter don’t even seem to notice or care Maybe we’re just ahead of the curve lads

CUCK SHIT JUST CHEAT BE CORRUPT YOU FUCKING ARE ALL CUCKS MY FAMILY DIDNT BECOME MILLIONAIRE BY WORK HARD ITS ALL BULLSHIT AND LYING AND CHEATING THE (((((SYSTEM)))))) and I would enslave everyone on this forum if I could

 

[Efiliste]

LDAR is law

 

[cvh1991]

This reminds me of a high IQ comment I saw once in youtube, so much that I even saved it.

"Reminds me of my first job in Mining. I was new and working REALLY hard to prove myself. One day I noticed an old timer watching me work really hard on a shit task the boss had put me on. The old timer approached me with a big grin and asked " Do you know what working really hard like that will get you?" I puffed out my chest a little as I was waiting to hear him say " A promotion. " Instead, he answered " A lot more really hard work." I just blinked in confusion as he sauntered off and went back to working really hard. 40 years later, I so miss that old timer and the wisdom he tried to bestow on me. Wish I would have been smart enough to listen and apply his wisdom back then..."

Great story, sometimes working hard matters. Often it doesn’t. Maybe I’m just not good at identifying when those times happen to be, but my general feeling is that people are simply catching on to the lie that working diligently will get you that promotion when honestly it’s more like the promotion will go to either a nepo, personal friend of the right people, or whatever candidate checks the most affirmative action/identity politics boxes and so on and so forth. There simply aren’t enough “good” jobs to go around and most people I know who have managed to land such a job seem to have passed the most important test of “It’s who you know” or just got very lucky. A guy I knew from Uni who was dumb as rocks and flunked all his classes (took him two more years to graduate and they had to give him a custom degree lol) is now a super high up executive from a successful startup that he got in early for and he told me he does nothing all day but plan table top games. Life is unfair, we all know, but holy fuck.

 

[cvh1991]

I would enslave everyone on this forum if I could

That’s really sad. Screwing over one’s enemies I understand completely. Getting vengeance for mistreatment I get completely. But if you knew you were working with “your people” who share your views and seek the same outcome long term, provided they’re actually trying/working with you or under you it would be better I think to help each other where possible. I wish I could start my own business but I’m too dumb for that apparently

I sympathize with your rage though — after a life of getting exploited and treated so badly with no prospects and no chance at the real milestones of a good life it fills you with hate and you want to make others suffer how you did. I feel that way sometimes tbh — I can’t let it drive my actual behavior though or I’ll wind up in the gutter with no job

 

[AsiaCel]

I have ADHD and I agree

 

[Despicablecel]

Both of my parents are workaholic npcs so i dont think its fully genetic. I genuinely just have an unusual life due to degeneracy abd ubfortunate recomb

 

[faded]

That’s really sad. Screwing over one’s enemies I understand completely. Getting vengeance for mistreatment I get completely. But if you knew you were working with “your people” who share your views and seek the same outcome long term, provided they’re actually trying/working with you or under you it would be better I think to help each other where possible. I wish I could start my own business but I’m too dumb for that apparently

I sympathize with your rage though — after a life of getting exploited and treated so badly with no prospects and no chance at the real milestones of a good life it fills you with hate and you want to make others suffer how you did. I feel that way sometimes tbh — I can’t let it drive my actual behavior though or I’ll wind up in the gutter with no job

I don’t give af that’s all bull shit I hate holes and i have no issue if I could mass enslave everyone on this fucking forum I hate other incels like norm shits and chads I hate everyone

 

[fastnbulbous]

The biological processes are your fate, depending on how the given mechanism operates, you will either be gifted (working machine) or useless

 

[Rabbi Schneerson]

But when I say it …………

 

[Leonardo Part V]

Water.

Talent smokes hard work.

"Hard work beats talent" is the worst cope ever, people who say that don't even comprehend what talent is.

 

[Leonardo Part V]

Water.

Talent smokes hard work.

"Hard work beats talent" is the worst cope ever, people who say that don't even comprehend what talent is.

 

[GeckoBus]

I’ve worked at different corporations in the US for about 15 years now and my observation’s been the higher up you go the less actual work you do while simultaneously earning more.

Thank you so much omfg, thank you!
I have been suspecting this for years. Like, sometimes you look at some high status persons linkedin and its like, what the fuck are you even doing. They have some weird degree with a bunch of words and titles.
And you just wonder, wtf could they possibly be doing?
Like when you break down what work amounts to, actual work, then you realize they can't be doing anything.
Work = providing services or products. Thats it
What are these people providing?
They are not producing anything, so it has to be service.

What kind of service are they providing that makes them worth so much money?
A good example is people like news anchors. Does anybody really believe that a dude reading from a teleprompter is worth 12 million a year?

Another thing I have noticed is that these people have copious amounts of free time. Your average wagie gets 2 weeks a year in the US, but these peoples social media makes it seem like they are on vaycay every month, unironically. They love to travel to bullshit locations, Dubai, India, China etc...

They simply can't be doing anything of value, no fucking way.

I kept feeling like I was getting mogged by these people, because im a complete fuckup, NEET, was homeless etc...
but my feelings are mixed because of what you describe. If you understand IQ distributions as well, you realize that there is no way all of these people are just "better" or "higher IQ."

It has to be a mix of environmental factors, looks, nepotism, gender in case of foids.

Anyway, very good thread, confirmed a lot of my suspicions about higher class people and their working conditions.

 

[cvh1991]

Both of my parents are workaholic npcs so i dont think its fully genetic. I genuinely just have an unusual life due to degeneracy abd ubfortunate recomb

It’s not all genetic, and to some degree one can brute force things if they’re indoctrinated or aggressively trained a certain way I’d argue. The issue today is primarily that, even if you could be a hard worker or big producer, nobody will do so if the reward is not commensurate with the effort, simple as. You have to actually have something worth working for, most young men simply do not have this anymore.

 

[cvh1991]

Water.

Talent smokes hard work.

"Hard work beats talent" is the worst cope ever, people who say that don't even comprehend what talent is.

Yeah, it’s a bit of a noisy relationship since probably someone with less talent could still succeed if they work 10x harder for 10x longer but on the other hand some people really are incapable of mastering certain things even if they dump in 100% of their effort. We’re just at that point now where some subjects/jobs are too complex for a lot of the population (eg Designing CPU process node advancements or being a full stack C dev, etc).

Usually talent begets more progress since if someone tries something and it works out for them/comes easily they’ll keep going whereas if someone tries something and tries hard and they just can’t get it they’ll usually give up — it’s a reward cycle in a sense.

Basically yes, talent beats hard work in a typical sense. People always say the opposite where lazy talent is beat by hard working no-talents but that’s not how life goes normally — it’s not that the talented apply zero effort it’s that they can achieve more with a fraction of the effort and will do so.

Sort of related I always find it funny when art sets out to show us “underdog” characters who lack talent as heroes but by the end the art accidentally proves the opposite. For example in Naruto someone like Rock Lee is left in the dust because despite his incredibly hard work he cannot compete with people who descend from literal deities or who have special genetic powers. That show wants us to think Naruto is a hardworking no talent underdog in the beginning but by the end it’s clear he has every inherent advantage in that world (nine tales , huge chakra reserves, the best teachers, descends from powerful ancestors). Not related to real life really but it’s just amusing how artists try to tell one message at the start then the work naturally morphs to reflect actual real life as it goes on.

 

[cvh1991]

Thank you so much omfg, thank you!
I have been suspecting this for years. Like, sometimes you look at some high status persons linkedin and its like, what the fuck are you even doing. They have some weird degree with a bunch of words and titles.
And you just wonder, wtf could they possibly be doing?
Like when you break down what work amounts to, actual work, then you realize they can't be doing anything.
Work = providing services or products. Thats it
What are these people providing?
They are not producing anything, so it has to be service.

What kind of service are they providing that makes them worth so much money?
A good example is people like news anchors. Does anybody really believe that a dude reading from a teleprompter is worth 12 million a year?

Another thing I have noticed is that these people have copious amounts of free time. Your average wagie gets 2 weeks a year in the US, but these peoples social media makes it seem like they are on vaycay every month, unironically. They love to travel to bullshit locations, Dubai, India, China etc...

They simply can't be doing anything of value, no fucking way.

I kept feeling like I was getting mogged by these people, because im a complete fuckup, NEET, was homeless etc...
but my feelings are mixed because of what you describe. If you understand IQ distributions as well, you realize that there is no way all of these people are just "better" or "higher IQ."

It has to be a mix of environmental factors, looks, nepotism, gender in case of foids.

Anyway, very good thread, confirmed a lot of my suspicions about higher class people and their working conditions.

This is a great comment, cheers fren

Yeah, I’m really bad at corporate language and playing social games where I’m unpopular where I work — I know the department head hates me and I know my manager (a woman I’ve made an entire post complaining about before talking about all the managers I’ve had) hates me. I don’t even think I did anything wrong per se I just keep to myself and do my job. I don’t call trans affirmative action hires by their fake pronouns, just by their name so I dunno maybe people detect that I’m not “one of them” or something.

But yeah, related to this in Uni if you look at the job data over time the number of profs relative to students has remained roughly constant over time but what’s changed is the number of admins and middle men managers has exploded over time.

Corporations are full of these people who produce nothing and are really just there because they know the right people or because the company wants “more women and underrepresented groups in management”.

What do they do? They sit in useless meetings all day and micromanage to make sure their underlings feel the heat under their butts to “stay productive”. From what I’ve seen most are parasites who actually know they don’t do anything of value so they’re constantly trying to create useless meetings and micromanage to “appear” as though they’re actually doing something — but they aren’t.

The dream of course is break into one such job — I have some acquaintances from a table top group who are older than me and lucked into management roles and they straight up tell me that they don’t do anything at work.

The dilemma is how to actually get such a job if you’re an autistic incel with no connections. Frankly it’s just not gonna happen for most of us and we’re gonna have to actually work and produce real value — all the while being treated like putrid garbage because you’re on the bottom rung.

Your status and rank in a company matters tremendously for how you’re treated and what you can get away with in a corporate structure. For example, our new department is pure evil and would’ve been fired within two days if he had the rank I do in the company purely based on how he speaks to people. He’s a cruel beast of a man with no actual understanding of what’s it’s like to do our job. I would be fired like *that* if I dared speak to people, even people at my level, like he does every day. But they get away with murder because they have rank, status, and power. That’s basically what it comes down to in the end. My boss is a duplicitous cunt who completely changed her personality when speaking to her superiors but then when she speaks to us she’s cruel and has even stolen my work several times.

I wish I could start my own company or that I knew someone who could get me into the management racket because from what I’ve seen that’s really where you wanna be. The people that are really high up (the execs) do even less. They’re basically just the owners who get a pay check as a result. I’ll clarify that some managers actually are good and do a lot of work, but they’re rare. I’ve had many mangers over the years, most were awful. Many of my peers who are actually doing real work are great people though, but god damn do I hate most of the “manager class”. The more I work in corporations the more I conclude progressing in your career is way more “knowing the right people who have power in a corporate structure” VS working hard or even raw skill. I’ve basically given up at my current job as a result. Why bother?