Discussion Antinatalism might be the most retarded thing ever.

[Lookslikeit]

Antinatalism is like that saying "dont throw the baby with the bathwater" taken on the affirmative. Its so dumb, its like a bad joke about a doctor coming up with the solution for all diseases, saying "what if we just killed everybody that ever entered the hospital?"

Its so dumb, naive and peanut brained i cant fathom how many people (these days, at least) would follow suit to this ideology. Its honestly baffling how brain dead we have become as a collective endeavour.

Coming back to the first paragraph, why did i used that expression? Because it hits the nail on its head. "Life has suffering. No life = no suffering" its like you pick a rotten banana and say to a man eating one "thats your banana too, just wait and you'll see" and the man stops eating the banana out of disgust. Its SURREAL dumbness. Or if a man that doesnt like wiping his ass stopped eating.

Its like that kid in the playground who ate the filling of the cookie and threw the rest of the cookie out.

Have this people already heard of yin-yang? Ya know, good, bad, the good that's in the bad and vice versa?

Who do they think they are and what made them think they are so special and deserving?

 

[ThisShitIsOva]

I would never subject my progeny to this dogshit world. Stay mad.

 

[Immolator]

im an antinatalist because my life is shit.

 

[pyromancer1234]

Low IQ. We spay and neuter cats and dogs who would give birth to suffering offspring. It's morally worse to create a human destined to be a wageslave, which is easy to do if you don't have the genetics and resources to give your offspring a decent chance.

I certainly didn't ask to be born.

 

[Lookslikeit]

Low IQ. We spay and neuter cats and dogs who would give birth to suffering offspring. It's morally worse to create a human destined to be a wageslave, which is easy to do if you don't have the genetics and resources to give your offspring a decent chance.

I certainly didn't ask to be born.

then kys. You certainly can willing and choosingly do that, cant you? If you dont, you are a hypocrite who wants to drag other people down to your level.

Dont you see how your entire movement is a psy op designed by the elites to neuter your kind? They are laughing at you. And you are letting them get away with fucking up your mind with this BS-nowhere ideology.

 

[Man]

This post is certified dogshit but my genius brain agrees

OP is correct and anyone who disagrees has pasta for neural circuits

 

[Man]

No matter how bad life gets only 1% of people with completely shit lives ever kill themselves

 

[based_meme]

Antinatalism is a logically absurd position in practice, but you haven't done a good job at all in attacking the philosophical arguments.

 

[RicaGames]

im an antinatalist because my life is shit.

I'm antinalist because my genetic is a shit, even if by miracle I ascend I won't have children, I don't wanna them to suffer as me.

 

[weaselbomber]

Antinatalism is a logically absurd position in practice, but you haven't done a good job at all in attacking the philosophical arguments.

I've read some of David Benatar's book on antinatalism and this is an ideology based off of a "value" assigned by the author to both happiness and suffering - he argues that an average person, a completely run-of-the-mill normoid, suffers more than gains pleasure because he arbitrarily assigns suffering as having more value than pleasure. That is to say, one moment suffering is more important or more noticeable to you than a moment of pleasure. And because of that all human life should end.
I was a bit disappointed. I expected to fully agree with him, since there's nothing more I want in this world than total normoid death, but that's extremely subjective. Wouldn't it just be easier to say the world is shit than to come up with those mental gymnastics?

 

[based_meme]

I've read some of David Benatar's book on antinatalism and this is an ideology based off of a "value" assigned by the author to both happiness and suffering - he argues that an average person, a completely run-of-the-mill normoid, suffers more than gains pleasure because he arbitrarily assigns suffering as having more value than pleasure. That is to say, one moment suffering is more important or more noticeable to you than a moment of pleasure. And because of that all human life should end.
I was a bit disappointed. I expected to fully agree with him, since there's nothing more I want in this world than total normoid death, but that's extremely subjective. Wouldn't it just be easier to say the world is shit than to come up with those mental gymnastics?

I'm afraid you didn't understand his asymmetry argument.

It's also a philosophy, not an ideology.

 

[Lookslikeit]

Antinatalism is a logically absurd position in practice, but you haven't done a good job at all in attacking the philosophical arguments.

I'll do a good one now. Assume theres a
Monkey fan. Hes the biggest monkey fan the world has ever known. An absolute weirdo. Suddenly (he's pretty slow) he discovers monkeys die. They get to old age and wrinkle. They get sick. Might even get depressed or something.

He suddenly loses his mind. He decides that, for any monkey to never suffer again, he will sterilize all the monkeys in the world, where when, finally, all the monkeys die, he will only have the idea of a monkey in his head, a perfectly happy monkey, free of all the cares in the world. Is this man sane?

Ps: i thought about using a fruit analogy, but you would say fruits arent sentient beings.

 

[Incedel]

yeah take the eugenics pill, if hitler one as subhumans would have been chads instead, gigaover

 

[weaselbomber]

I'm afraid you didn't understand his asymmetry argument.

It's also a philosophy, not an ideology.

I did understand the asymmetry argument. I'm just talking about my main gripe with the book, that being the fact that he gets hazy, abstract concepts and assigns them values. That alone tingled my autism and made me dismiss the book. That's why I didn't finish it
And it is as much of an ideology as it is a philosophy. Think of it like Stirnerism

 

[based_meme]

He decides that, for any monkey to never suffer again, he will sterilize all the monkeys in the world, where when, finally, all the monkeys die, he will only have the idea of a monkey in his head, a perfectly happy monkey, free of all the cares in the world. Is this man sane?

This is absurd, because in order to not have more future monkeys suffer, he will inflict suffering on all existing monkeys. He's "preventing" suffering by adding suffering. It's self-defeating.

 

[based_meme]

I did understand the asymmetry argument. I'm just talking about my main gripe with the book, that being the fact that he gets hazy, abstract concepts and assigns them values. That alone tingled my autism and made me dismiss the book. That's why I didn't finish it
And it is as much of an ideology as it is a philosophy. Think of it like Stirnerism

"Stirnirism" can correctly be categorized as an ideology, because it takes many different philosophies and organizes them together in Stirner's own way. Anti-natalism is just one philosophical position.

Assigning values to abstract concepts is one major way how we reason and analyze morality, moral systems, and moral actions. Intuitively, we understand this when we compare the moral values of two actions on one side (good or bad). For example, I don't need to give you a precise number between theft and murder for you to intuit that murder is worse than theft, because the harm is worse in many ways.

 

[Lookslikeit]

This is absurd, because in order to not have more future monkeys suffer, he will inflict suffering on all existing monkeys. He's "preventing" suffering by adding suffering. It's self-defeating.

Sometimes, you have to radicalize an ideology to see its full intent behind closed doors.

 

[based_meme]

Sometimes, you have to radicalize an ideology to see its full intent behind closed doors.

This isn't an argument, it's just commentary.

 

[Lookslikeit]

This isn't an argument, it's just commentary.

Soo, what would be your commentary against anti natalism? (If you had to do one, ofc).

 

[weaselbomber]

Assigning values to abstract concepts is one major way how we reason and analyze morality, moral systems, and moral actions. Intuitively, we understand this when we compare the moral values of two actions on one side (good or bad). For example, I don't need to give you a precise number between theft and murder for you to intuit that murder is worse than theft, because the harm is worse in many ways.

I know what you mean and this makes perfect sense.
It's just that I personally believe morality to be subjective as well.
I mean, would a gang member killing a rival gang member be as worse as someone stealing a historically significant work of art?
There's always a caviat and exceptions, and because of that I don't like assigning values to abstract concepts. I believe it's just lumping together a whole bunch of scenarios and occasions that can differ greatly in what they imply, but that's just my personal view.

 

[based_meme]

Soo, what would be your commentary against anti natalism? (If you had to do one, ofc).

Commentary is just giving my opinions and feelings. I personally don't care, because it's not a philosophy that negatively or positively affects anyone else in any meaningful way. The one thing it does do in practice for the antinatalist is that they would refuse to have children. That's kind of it, really.

 

[based_meme]

I know what you mean and this makes perfect sense.
It's just that I personally believe morality to be subjective as well.
I mean, would a gang member killing a rival gang member be as worse as someone stealing a historically significant work of art?
There's always a caviat and exceptions, and because of that I don't like assigning values to abstract concepts. I believe it's just lumping together a whole bunch of scenarios and occasions that can differ greatly in what they imply, but that's just my personal view.

Assigning values to abstract concepts is the name of the game. It's done in both philosophy and mathematics.

 

[weaselbomber]

Assigning values to abstract concepts is the name of the game. It's done in both philosophy and mathematics.

I am aware. I'm not saying that's wrong or that you shouldn't do it - I just personally disagree of its application in regards to morality specifically

 

[based_meme]

I am aware. I'm not saying that's wrong or that you shouldn't do it - I just personally disagree of its application in regards to morality specifically

Then how would you go about reasoning through moral actions?

 

[weaselbomber]

Then how would you go about reasoning through moral actions?

There's to answers to this, depending if it's just my opinion or if I had to do it in, say, a law setting.
If it's just me, I'd do it on a case-to-case basis. I do believe it is subjective, but there are a lot of things society agrees on, and they agree on for a reason. Just because it's subjective, it doesn't mean you should disregard it or believe it is fake.
If it were a "law reason", I'd have to be pragmatic and compromise. For me to make things work smoothly, classifications would be the right way to go, even if, like in real life, there are cases where the law, while technically being right, is applied erroneously
Forgive me if I'm not coherent enough, it's quite late in my timezone

 

[NorthernWind]

Majority of people will never be anti-natalists. Healthy bodies want to procreate. Anti-natalism is a cope for genetically undesirable and small amount of intellectuals.

 

[eldercelder]

It depends on how you define "anti-natalism."

For incels talking about artificial wombs and having kids without women....what's the fucking point? If you can't find a chick who wants to fuck you and carry on your seed, then you're not even at the "I want children" stage. It's like worrying about getting into graduate school when you're flunking out of middle school. You haven't gotten there yet, can't go from Point A to Point C....have to go through Point B.

No point in having kids if you can't find a foid who wants to have kids with you. No work-around for that crucial step.

But in a broader sense, most normies aren't even thinking in "natal" terms. Many conceptions simply happen because normies like to fuck and are given the opportunity to do so. They're not even thinking about the outcome in the moment. They're not thinking about KIDS when they're fucking each other's brains out.

That said, as a fucked up truecel, what the hell could I even offer a kid? If it's a boy, he'll probably inherit my fucked-up genetics (NATURE). Since I myself have failed at life, how could I ever raise and prepare him for it? (NURTURE).

I don't even know why anyone here is worrying about having kids if you can't even accomplish the natural act that leads to kids in the first place.

It's like saying, "I can't get the basketball in the hoop. Let's ignore that. Is there an artificial basketball court that I can magically be the star on, even though I can't make a slam dunk?"

 

[Antifem Lord]

I'm an antinatalist fuck society fuck humanity

 

[ThisShitIsOva]

I'm an antinatalist fuck society fuck humanity

Based.

Fuck humanity. Let it die.

 

[Copexodius Maximus]

“Don’t throw out the baby with the bathwater”

The problem with this statement is that there is no baby there.

 

[lifefuel]

Breeding is like gambling with someone else's money.

 

[SocialzERo]

Breeding is like gambling with someone else's money.

 

[SeetheBot9000]

If you aren't an antinatalist you aren't blackpilled and probably shouldn't be here.

 

[Robb97]

Life is probably amazing for chad and women.

 

[Robb97]

I wish my parents were antinatalists.

 

[der_komische]

I'm an antinatalist because of the current state of society.

 

[TheGrayWolf]

Low IQ. We spay and neuter cats and dogs who would give birth to suffering offspring. It's morally worse to create a human destined to be a wageslave, which is easy to do if you don't have the genetics and resources to give your offspring a decent chance.

I certainly didn't ask to be born.

You clearly haven’t suffered enough if you think there are no merits to the philosophy. A lot of people are thrown into this meat grinder because their parents wanted a trophy pet without giving it any forethought. There are different types of antinatalism and the one you’re describing in your arguments is the most extreme version. The version I support is only allowing select cases of procreation and requiring a license to prove that a parent is of sound mind and of reasonable genetic health i.e no hereditary diseases, an IQ of 95+.

That being said, you won’t be able to convince mos t people to give up a behavior that has been ingrained into the fabric of their DNA. It would be like trying to tell a programmed computer to stop running its OS

Ask yourself of what purpose will the life of a child that will become a future victim of rape, murder or suicide will serve.

 

[MiSKiRaT]

im an antinatalist because my life is shit.

same here

 

[TheGrayWolf]

No it's not you idiot. Nobody asked to be born. Many of us including me (who is extremely ugly and short) suffer. The world is overpopulated and more people will just make living more expensive (because there is more demand for housing), traffic jams will increase and emissions too, and if more people 20-30 years ago would have been antinatalist, we'd have less competition. Did I mention I didn't ask to be born? life is suffering only

 

[TheGrayWolf]

Majority of people will never be anti-natalists. Healthy bodies want to procreate. Anti-natalism is a cope for genetically undesirable and small amount of intellectuals.

not an intellectual, but I'm undesirable. I see first hand how ugly people suffer so ofc I'm an AN

 

[im done]

I would never subject my progeny to this dogshit world. Stay mad.

Based